Digital BW, The Print

on 8/28/2001 5:22 PM, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com at
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:32:49 -0000
> From: tynmansystems@...
> Subject: Film scanning and scratches
> 
> I tried to find a group that is focused on film scanning, but
> couldn't find one; hope this isn't too far off topic for this group.
> 
> Over the past two year, I have been scanning 35mm negative film (both
> color and B&W) using a Canon 2710 film scanner. I notice that I spend
> a tremendous amount of time retouching film scratches on over half of
> the images that I have scanned. These are very fine scratches on the
> film base, that would typically not be visible in an enlargement made
> in an enlarger, but which are very visible when scanned and enlarged
> in Photoshop.
> 
> My question is: is there something inherent in film scanners that
> magnifies film scratches? I have seen the dust and scratch removal
> software (e.g. Nikon's Ice software) touted in scanner
> advertisements, but assumed these would be necessary only for old,
> mis-handled, damaged film. Is this scratch magnification an attribute
> of film scanning that we just don't talk about in public, or is it
> just me?
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Thanks, Ben Tyndall.
> 
try majordomo@... to subscribe to the filmscanner mailing list.

Yes, my Nikon scanner's light source magnifies scratches and dust,
especially on negative films.  Fortunately, ICE removes them very very well.
ICE does not work on B&W silver based film though.

Therefore, I always use ICE when scanning color negatives.
 
-Bruce

Visit my website at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~smthopr

> > From: tynmansystems@...
> > Subject: Film scanning and scratches
> >
<snip>
> > My question is: is there something inherent in film scanners that
> > magnifies film scratches? I have seen the dust and scratch removal
> > software (e.g. Nikon's Ice software) touted in scanner
> > advertisements, but assumed these would be necessary only for old,
> > mis-handled, damaged film. Is this scratch magnification an attribute
> > of film scanning that we just don't talk about in public, or is it
> > just me?
<snip>

Yes. If you use a scanner with a LED-type light source. This is the
equivalent of a collimated light enlarger. Scanners with diffuse light
sources (typically flat-beds with tube-light sources) are in my view similar
to diffusion enlargers which are easier to work with as they 'hide' dust
etc, but also tend to result in softer prints or scans.

It is a good scanners capability of picking up scratches that makes the
choice of who develops your film far more important, in my view... not just
with those pernicious little marks or scratches on the film from the machine
(+ watermarks etc), but also such simple things as do they follow your
instructions to cut film in a way you want? Like for slide film, labs tend
to cut in 8's - but my scanner takes 6's at most... so I ask for them to cut
in 6's and when they don't, I get mighty pissed off :) Simple stuff like
that can make a really big difference to scanning efficiency when you want
to thumbnail a film.

Nij

Ben,

While the occasional scratch appears on negs it isn't the norm. I use a 
Nikon LS-2000 which is notoriously good at showing up any and all defects 
like scratches and dust due to its type of light source. Other scanners 
are more forgiving if they use a more diffuse light source. I have no 
idea what the Canon scanner uses.

That said, I had a similar problem with XP2 film. My first two rolls came 
back from the lab with very very fine hairline scratches all over them, 
invisible to the eye when looked at casually. Only noticed when scanning. 
I took them back to the lab and when viewed obliquely with a point light 
source the film looked like someone had taken Brillo to it! The lab 
offered to scan it to a Kodak Photo CD for free and I took them up on it. 
No scratches appeared on their scan. Other films developed at the same 
pro lab showed no scratches. They told me that XP2 has a particularly 
delicate emulsion but that may have been to excuse their sloppy 
developing methods.

If you routinely get scratches I would check your cameras and developing 
procedure to make sure the problem doesn't reside there. If you get your 
films developed at a lab try changing labs. It is no way normal for *all* 
your films to be scratched.

Cheers,

Nina

>Over the past two year, I have been scanning 35mm negative film (both 
>color and B&W) using a Canon 2710 film scanner. I notice that I spend 
>a tremendous amount of time retouching film scratches on over half of 
>the images that I have scanned. These are very fine scratches on the 
>film base, that would typically not be visible in an enlargement made 
>in an enlarger, but which are very visible when scanned and enlarged 
>in Photoshop.