Digital BW, The Print

> -Thanks for the valuable information. I don't have the space (currently), nor
> can I justify the cost of a 7600 right now.  (I understand it is the size of a
> small 
> gas barbeque).  But, I suspect the 2200 offers similar performance on a small
> scale.

I'd hate to see what you consider a big barbeque then ;-) Yes it is quite
big... 4 feet wide.
 
> I am curious how you did your custom profile.  That is, did you create
> separate 
> profiles that were optimized for B/W and color printing.  Some have suggested
> that the Epson driver is more linear when you use the photorealistic setting
> (under color controls), rather than no color adjustment setting with improved
> ink density.  So, when printing their targets for an optimized B/W profile
> they 
> are using this setting which is starting the printer at something closer to
> linear 
> with better separation of the blacks on a step wedge.  This apparently reduces
> the color gamut, but supposedly provides better B/W imaging.  Did you do
> that, or use the traditional no color adjustment setting.

I just used no color adjustment. That's the first I've heard of using the
color controls setting instead. I may try it later to see. That would have
the advantage of letting me use Epson's color controls to tone the print
while keeping the file grayscale.
 
> I definitely cannot consider doing the profiling myself, but am prepared to
> spend ~100-200 for a custom profile///   Yet this can get expensive if I
> decide 
> to change paper types.  For now, I will start off with Photo Rag I think.  Do
> you 
> have any recommendations for a reliable profiling company that you may
> have worked with.

No but you could probably find some recommendations on the epson 9000 list.
I think inkjetmall also does them? Or do they just sell their own canned
versions?
 
> I may have misunderstood your response but you said:
> 
> if reprofiling doesn't improve things "I may fool around with
> converting to RGB and throwing a curve on them"
> 
> Does that mean that prints with your current profile were printed in grayscale
> mode.  I am very new to this color management thing and very naive.  But, I
> was told that is necessary to print all my monochrome images in RGB mode
> when sending them to the color printer.  Is this true or not.

My negatives are black and white and I scan them in grayscale. I keep
everything in grayscale, which saves a lot of space. The image is converted
to RGB based on my profile right before it's sent to the printer. In the
print dialog when you choose the output space or print space (forget which
exactly they call it... the popup there) along with Intent, photoshop is
doing the same conversion it would if you did it through
Image->Mode->Convert to Profile..., it's just doing it on the fly and
reversing it after printing. If I wanted to change the tone of the print
from anything but neutral gray I would need to change the file to RGB and
put a color curve (or adjustment layer of some sort, I'm fond of
Hue/Saturation with Colorized checked myself). Your suggestion of profiling
with Color Controls would bypass that, I may have to try it.

> Overall, I'd say with imageprint, the occasional BW printer can get decent
> prints with a 7600.  I would not say this for the epson driver output that
> I've seen from the 7600 and 2200...there is too much compromise in shadow
> and highlight detail. Probably the biggest advantage is for a commerical
> photographer who wants to do glossy or pearl RC style prints...the 7600
> would be great for this...and of course lightfastness is not an issue for
> that application.

I'm not sure where you are seeing loss of highlight and shadow detail. I've
printed out the 21 step wedge and it's just as smooth on the 7600 as it was
with Piezography. You can't use the same curves for the two though,
piezography needs much harsher curves than the 7600 does. With piezo I was
always struggling to push the shadows down enough to get the black ink to
finally kick in and give the bottom end some punch without completely losing
the whole bottom half of the image. The challenge with the 7600 is to hold
the shadows back. Different struggles, but both are capable of a full smooth
range of tones.

On 8/17/02 6:17 AM, "Anton Young" <antonyoung@...> wrote:

> I'm not sure where you are seeing loss of highlight and shadow detail. I've
> printed out the 21 step wedge and it's just as smooth on the 7600 as it was
> with Piezography. You can't use the same curves for the two though,
> piezography needs much harsher curves than the 7600 does. With piezo I was
> always struggling to push the shadows down enough to get the black ink to
> finally kick in and give the bottom end some punch without completely losing
> the whole bottom half of the image. The challenge with the 7600 is to hold
> the shadows back. Different struggles, but both are capable of a full smooth
> range of tones.

21 step is still course.  I check shadows and hilights with 0.5% increments.
Imageprint resolves these easily.  In addition these transitions need to be
smooth. Mind you I don't have a 7600 so I'm just going on the output that
I've seen from people who do.

Personally, I don't compare anything to the piezo plugin because the
profiles are not nearly as smooth and clean as what I get with Imageprint.
Piezo plugin and epson driver images look out of focus compared to what I
get with Imageprint. Piezopro is in the ball park though...but the profiles
need to be redone for the piezotones.

The black problem that you are describing is typical when you don't have RIP
style controls...or in the case of imageprint...someone who is tuning a
driver specifically for BW work...something epson doesn't do well.  The
easiest way to get black punch is to use the piezotones on hahnemuhle.  It
beats the matte black by at  .15 dmax.  If you want the best performance you
can get from your 7600 for BW work...I suggest you order a Imageprint demo.
I'm sure we would all be interested in your comparisons.


Robert