Digital BW, The Print

Has this been done? I haven't followed this list very closely (397 digests
before I'm caught up ;-)), so I'm not sure if you guys have done this or
not, if so it might still be interesting to do with new inksets and printers
out. They are doing something similar with inksets/papers over in the epson
9000 list with a color file.

The idea would be to do a print exchange like normal, hopefully 25-30 people
or so, but everyone print the same file on the same paper with their
particular setup. The file should be something like the equivalent of ole no
moire for black and white... Should be full range of tones, areas of detail,
areas of smooth gradations, etc. Does anyone know of a good standard test
type image of that sort? Anyhow, Image X composited with a 21 step wedge or
somesuch on the side, and posted where we can all download it. Then we all
print it out, without modifying it in any way, on our individual set ups as
we normally do, and return to the coordinator (not me, I have neither time
nor inclination to co-ordinate, but I would very much like to participate).
I would vote for doing them letter size on Epson Archival Matte, because EAM
is cheap, readily available just about everywhere, and prints respectably
with most inks. Prints could be labeled on the  back with ink/workflow/print
setting information, so that participants could flip through the collection
and do a blind test.

Anybody else interested in this? I've read a lot of talk about different
inks/workflows/rips, but I'd like to have some examples in front of me to do
my own side by side. I'll volunteer two sets of prints, one with my 7600 and
the canned epson profile, and one with my 7600 using a custom built profile
from an eye-one.

We would need:

1) A Coordinator... Would be a great opportunity for someone who is shopping
for a system to get a lot of examples in return for a lot of careful
collating

2) An Image... Should be some hopefully standard testing sort of thing if
you know the type... Links to ideas would be great so we could all look and
give it the thumbs up/down

3) Participants... I'm thinking 25-30 if there are that many different
inkset/workflow/printer combinations, which I think there probably are.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Anton Young 
<antonyoung@c...> wrote:
They are doing something similar with inksets/papers over in the 
epson
> 9000 list with a color file.

I am helping with coordination of the exchange on the 9000 list. 
At first, I resisted the suggestion to print a very dry, highly 
technical image; I wanted to print one regular photograph almost 
full-bleed, but after messing with this target image, I've learned a 
lot, and I now see why they like it.

Here is our Instruction Page, and the link for the image 
download. Have a look:

http://marktucker.com/exchange/

Given, we are looking at color gamut and surface textures of 
various papers for the most part, and that wouldn't necessarily 
apply to this list, but still, some of these items on the target 
image are surprisingly useful. You could probably add some 
other graphics that would test B/W more thoroughly.

This image started as a JPG; I didn't like that part. It would be 
great if you could find an image that always lived as a TIFF, 
without any artifacting.

- MTucker, http://marktucker.com/

>Has this been done? [snip]

Not that I remember, neither here nor from the Piezo list.

[snip]


>Anybody else interested in this?

Yes, very much.


>I've read a lot of talk about different inks/workflows/rips, but I'd 
>like to have some examples in front of me to do my own side by side.

In addition to that, I'd like to compare and contrast my own to other 
similarly-situated printers (1160,Sepia-Neutral). Such an exchange 
might prompt some such swaps on the side with subscribers who don't 
get into the exchange itself.


>I'll volunteer two sets of prints, one with my 7600 and the canned 
>epson profile, and one with my 7600 using a custom built profile 
>from an eye-one.

All I can offer is a set from an Epson-driven, unprofiled-1160 with 
the Sepia-Neutral ink set. Mac curves, if that matters. (Those of us 
on VM would use the neutral curve I guess?)


>We would need:
>
>1) A Coordinator... Would be a great opportunity for someone who is 
>shopping for a system to get a lot of examples in return for a lot 
>of careful collating

My place is too small to spread the collating out, but if the work 
lends itself to more than one pair of hands, and I can commute (from 
the North Bay) to the coordinator's, I'd be glad to try to help.

Sam McCandless                samcc@...

I'd be interested.  I can offer an 1160 using MIS FS-N bulk inks via a
CIS through the piezography driver.

g.

So far I have a good candidate for a test file, and about 4 participants.
Need some more people to participate and a volunteer to collate and ship...
That would be a good trade for someone who doesn't have output to contribute
themselves but would like to have a copy of them all.... Especially good if
you are lurking around thinking of buying something as I mentioned before.
Also, I would very much like to see some of this ImagePrint output... Any of
you IP fans care to put your money where your mouth is?

> Has this been done? I haven't followed this list very closely (397 digests
> before I'm caught up ;-)), so I'm not sure if you guys have done this or not,
> if so it might still be interesting to do with new inksets and printers out.
> They are doing something similar with inksets/papers over in the epson 9000
> list with a color file.
> 
> The idea would be to do a print exchange like normal, hopefully 25-30 people
> or so, but everyone print the same file on the same paper with their
> particular setup. The file should be something like the equivalent of ole no
> moire for black and white... Should be full range of tones, areas of detail,
> areas of smooth gradations, etc. Does anyone know of a good standard test type
> image of that sort? Anyhow, Image X composited with a 21 step wedge or
> somesuch on the side, and posted where we can all download it. Then we all
> print it out, without modifying it in any way, on our individual set ups as we
> normally do, and return to the coordinator (not me, I have neither time nor
> inclination to co-ordinate, but I would very much like to participate). I
> would vote for doing them letter size on Epson Archival Matte, because EAM is
> cheap, readily available just about everywhere, and prints respectably with
> most inks. Prints could be labeled on the  back with ink/workflow/print
> setting information, so that participants could flip through the collection
> and do a blind test.
> 
> Anybody else interested in this? I've read a lot of talk about different
> inks/workflows/rips, but I'd like to have some examples in front of me to do
> my own side by side. I'll volunteer two sets of prints, one with my 7600 and
> the canned epson profile, and one with my 7600 using a custom built profile
> from an eye-one.
> 
> We would need:
> 
> 1) A Coordinator... Would be a great opportunity for someone who is shopping
> for a system to get a lot of examples in return for a lot of careful collating
> 
> 2) An Image... Should be some hopefully standard testing sort of thing if you
> know the type... Links to ideas would be great so we could all look and give
> it the thumbs up/down
> 
> 3) Participants... I'm thinking 25-30 if there are that many different
> inkset/workflow/printer combinations, which I think there probably are.

The rebate on the 1280 expires 12-31.  If this is going to help in the
decision making process, it should be done fairly quickly.  
 
I can contribute the output of an Epson C-80 run through Corel (sorry).
I'm willing to at least help coordinate, but will be pretty much out of
pocket from now through the end of Sept.  I'm available for a good
amount of work immediately after that.
 
Images to be considered:  I'd suggest a smallish portion of both a
portrait (softer tones) and perhaps a somewhat technical image - a
suspension bridge or something else with sharp edges and good contrast.
 
Karl Wolz

-----Original Message-----
From: Anton Young [mailto:antonyoung@...] 
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 8:02 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Technical Print Exchange
 
So far I have a good candidate for a test file, and about 4
participants.
Need some more people to participate and a volunteer to collate and
ship...
That would be a good trade for someone who doesn't have output to
contribute
themselves but would like to have a copy of them all.... Especially good
if
you are lurking around thinking of buying something as I mentioned
before.
Also, I would very much like to see some of this ImagePrint output...
Any of
you IP fans care to put your money where your mouth is?

> Has this been done? I haven't followed this list very closely (397
digests
> before I'm caught up ;-)), so I'm not sure if you guys have done this
or not,
> if so it might still be interesting to do with new inksets and
printers out.
> They are doing something similar with inksets/papers over in the epson
9000
> list with a color file.
> 
> The idea would be to do a print exchange like normal, hopefully 25-30
people
> or so, but everyone print the same file on the same paper with their
> particular setup. The file should be something like the equivalent of
ole no
> moire for black and white... Should be full range of tones, areas of
detail,
> areas of smooth gradations, etc. Does anyone know of a good standard
test type
> image of that sort? Anyhow, Image X composited with a 21 step wedge or
> somesuch on the side, and posted where we can all download it. Then we
all
> print it out, without modifying it in any way, on our individual set
ups as we
> normally do, and return to the coordinator (not me, I have neither
time nor
> inclination to co-ordinate, but I would very much like to
participate). I
> would vote for doing them letter size on Epson Archival Matte, because
EAM is
> cheap, readily available just about everywhere, and prints respectably
with
> most inks. Prints could be labeled on the  back with
ink/workflow/print
> setting information, so that participants could flip through the
collection
> and do a blind test.
> 
> Anybody else interested in this? I've read a lot of talk about
different
> inks/workflows/rips, but I'd like to have some examples in front of me
to do
> my own side by side. I'll volunteer two sets of prints, one with my
7600 and
> the canned epson profile, and one with my 7600 using a custom built
profile
> from an eye-one.
> 
> We would need:
> 
> 1) A Coordinator... Would be a great opportunity for someone who is
shopping
> for a system to get a lot of examples in return for a lot of careful
collating
> 
> 2) An Image... Should be some hopefully standard testing sort of thing
if you
> know the type... Links to ideas would be great so we could all look
and give
> it the thumbs up/down
> 
> 3) Participants... I'm thinking 25-30 if there are that many different
> inkset/workflow/printer combinations, which I think there probably
are.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Anton,

I would like to participate. I will offer MIS FS-N inks on a 1280 
printer using the Epson driver (not Piezography), in which the ink 
positions are modified. Additionally, I am working on modifying the 
dark gray ink to give it an "eggplant" tone, similar to the PiezoTone 
Selenium inks. So I will contribute 2 images.

Which imgage did you choose? Where can I download it?

Best wishes.

Shilesh

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Anton Young 
<antonyoung@c...> wrote:
> So far I have a good candidate for a test file, and about 4 
participants.
> Need some more people to participate and a volunteer to collate and 
ship...
> That would be a good trade for someone who doesn't have output to 
contribute
> themselves but would like to have a copy of them all.... Especially 
good if
> you are lurking around thinking of buying something as I mentioned 
before.
> Also, I would very much like to see some of this ImagePrint 
output... Any of
> you IP fans care to put your money where your mouth is?
> 
> > Has this been done? I haven't followed this list very closely 
(397 digests
> > before I'm caught up ;-)), so I'm not sure if you guys have done 
this or not,
> > if so it might still be interesting to do with new inksets and 
printers out.
> > They are doing something similar with inksets/papers over in the 
epson 9000
> > list with a color file.
> > 
> > The idea would be to do a print exchange like normal, hopefully 
25-30 people
> > or so, but everyone print the same file on the same paper with 
their
> > particular setup. The file should be something like the 
equivalent of ole no
> > moire for black and white... Should be full range of tones, areas 
of detail,
> > areas of smooth gradations, etc. Does anyone know of a good 
standard test type
> > image of that sort? Anyhow, Image X composited with a 21 step 
wedge or
> > somesuch on the side, and posted where we can all download it. 
Then we all
> > print it out, without modifying it in any way, on our individual 
set ups as we
> > normally do, and return to the coordinator (not me, I have 
neither time nor
> > inclination to co-ordinate, but I would very much like to 
participate). I
> > would vote for doing them letter size on Epson Archival Matte, 
because EAM is
> > cheap, readily available just about everywhere, and prints 
respectably with
> > most inks. Prints could be labeled on the  back with 
ink/workflow/print
> > setting information, so that participants could flip through the 
collection
> > and do a blind test.
> > 
> > Anybody else interested in this? I've read a lot of talk about 
different
> > inks/workflows/rips, but I'd like to have some examples in front 
of me to do
> > my own side by side. I'll volunteer two sets of prints, one with 
my 7600 and
> > the canned epson profile, and one with my 7600 using a custom 
built profile
> > from an eye-one.
> > 
> > We would need:
> > 
> > 1) A Coordinator... Would be a great opportunity for someone who 
is shopping
> > for a system to get a lot of examples in return for a lot of 
careful collating
> > 
> > 2) An Image... Should be some hopefully standard testing sort of 
thing if you
> > know the type... Links to ideas would be great so we could all 
look and give
> > it the thumbs up/down
> > 
> > 3) Participants... I'm thinking 25-30 if there are that many 
different
> > inkset/workflow/printer combinations, which I think there 
probably are.