Digital BW, The Print

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-----Original Message-----
From: bellis33624 [mailto:bellis60@...] 
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 6:23 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] B&W Negatives Scanned as Color Transparencies
 
I keep seeing suggestions that black and white negatives be scanned 
as color transparencies. However, when this is done the negative 
appears as a negative on the monitor and it's hard to know what 
adjustments to make when you can only see the image as a negative. My 
question: if I do the overview and prescan as a negative (so that the 
image appears as a positive on the monitor while I'm making 
adjustments), and then switch to color transparency mode before the 
final scan, will I obtain the advantages of scanning as a color 
transparency or to obtain those advantages do I need to be in 
transparency mode throughout the scanning process (overview, prescan, 
and scan)?


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>  
> Stan Shire
> Associate Professor/Department Chair
> Photographic Imaging
> Community College of Philadelphia
> Adobe Photoshop 6 A.C.E.

-----Original Message-----
From: andrevallejo [mailto:avs@...] 
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 1:07 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: B&W Negatives Scanned as Color Transparencies
 
If you scan BW with multisampling in 16 bits,none.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Shire,Stanley" 
<sshire@c...> wrote:
> What are the advantages of scanning a grayscale neg as a 
transparency?
>  
> Stan Shire
> Associate Professor/Department Chair
> Photographic Imaging
> Community College of Philadelphia
> Adobe Photoshop 6 A.C.E.






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: "bellis33624" <bellis60@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 3:22 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] B&W Negatives Scanned as Color Transparencies


> I keep seeing suggestions that black and white negatives be scanned
> as color transparencies. However, when this is done the negative
> appears as a negative on the monitor and it's hard to know what
> adjustments to make when you can only see the image as a negative. My
> question: if I do the overview and prescan as a negative (so that the
> image appears as a positive on the monitor while I'm making
> adjustments), and then switch to color transparency mode before the
> final scan, will I obtain the advantages of scanning as a color
> transparency or to obtain those advantages do I need to be in
> transparency mode throughout the scanning process (overview, prescan,
> and scan)?

Bellis,

It depends upon your scanning software. What are you using and with which
scanner? With Silverfast I scan in transparent negative mode, either
grayscale or RGB, and with the proper settings get a correct preview to work
with.

Martin Wesley

From: "Shire,Stanley" <sshire@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 8:09 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] B&W Negatives Scanned as Color Transparencies


> What are the advantages of scanning a grayscale neg as a transparency?
>
Stan,

A B&W neg is a transparency but the term has been co-opted to mean a color
slide so some confusion.

Martin

(snip earlier)

From: "Alan Zinn" <AZinn@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 5:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] B&W Negatives Scanned as Color Transparencies


> The scanner always scans rgb no matter what mode it processes the image in
> later. Why scan in transparency mode?  Scan in color neg mode and then
> convert to b/w if you don't want the scanner software to do it
automatically.
>
> AZ
> Maker of Lookaround panoramic camera.
> http://www.panoramacamera.us
>          or
> keyword.com lookaround

Depends on the scanner used.

The Agfa Horizon Plus A3 scans in three passes, for each pass it uses
another separation filter. The filter holder however has 4 filters, the
fourth filter is used when the scanner scans B&W in one scan. It probably is
just a ND filter. For an old 1200 ppi scanner the quality is quite good, and
usable up to 11.5 x 16.5 " filmsize.

The Nikon LS 8000 that I have next to the Agfa has some flaws in its
NikonScan software, any negative scanning mode clips in the shadows. It then
is better to scan in positive and reverse afterwards.

Ernst

From: "bellis33624" <bellis60@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 12:22 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] B&W Negatives Scanned as Color Transparencies


> I keep seeing suggestions that black and white negatives be scanned
> as color transparencies. However, when this is done the negative
> appears as a negative on the monitor and it's hard to know what
> adjustments to make when you can only see the image as a negative. My
> question: if I do the overview and prescan as a negative (so that the
> image appears as a positive on the monitor while I'm making
> adjustments), and then switch to color transparency mode before the
> final scan, will I obtain the advantages of scanning as a color
> transparency or to obtain those advantages do I need to be in
> transparency mode throughout the scanning process (overview, prescan,
> and scan)?

On a Linotype with the right software it is unlikely that negative scanning
is worse than positive scanning of a negative. There's no reason to go the
transparency route and reverse later on.
Most reports on negatives scanned as positives are related to flaws in the
software.
Isn't there a hardware mode on the Linotype that does a direct B&W scan with
the PMT ?

Ernst

From: "bellis33624" <bellis60@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 6:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] B&W Negatives Scanned as Color Transparencies



(snip)

> I appreciate the responses from the people who told me how they
> scanned, and I also appreciate the responses from those who
> questioned why I would want to scan a black and white negative as a
> color transparency (for the answer to this question, see the current
> issue of Shutterbug magazine and the article in it on scanning black
> and white negatives for one source). However, interesting as these
> responses were (and I thank the people who took the time to send
> them), they didn't really address the question I asked. If anyone
> knows the answer to the question I asked I'd appreciate hearing from
> you. To the person who asked what scanner and software I use, I use
> the Linoscan 1400 scanner and the Newcolor 5000 software. Thanks
> again.
>

Bellis,

There is no technical advantage to scanning in positive vs. negative mode
except that in positive mode with a negative you have a difficult time
making adjustments in the preview window. I also have, but no longer use, a
Linoscan 1400 (a 1200 ppi flatbed scanner for those who are not familiar
with it.) and have tried Newcolor 4000 and 5000.

Quite frankly I found both software packages to be two of the worst I have
used. In an attempt to be user friendly with a pretty interface, they have
made it very difficult to determine what the scanner is actually doing. With
this software trying to scan a B&W negative as a color transparency is
likely to make things difficult and I would stick with scanning it as a B&W
negative. There are differing opinions on this, but I see no benefit in
final print quality from using grayscale or color scans with this type of
scanner.

I would strongly suggest that you give Vuescan a try or Silverfast (which I
prefer but is rather expensive.) You can download free demos of both to try.

Martin Wesley