Digital BW, The Print

Hi,

I'd like to pick up where a previous thread (Comparison of PiezoTones 
vs. Epson 2200) left off. I'm about to dive into the whole quad-tone 
process, and I'm trying to decide between the Epson 1280 & 2200. I 
didn't see any strong opinions in the previous thread about the print 
quality of PiezoTones vs. Epson's new inks (except for Carl 
Schofield's article comparing MIS VM inks). So, I'm asking again. Are 
there opinions from folks who have tried both the PiezoTone inks and 
the 2200?

I've had some prints made of my work on an Epson 3000 with the 
original PiezographyBW inks on Photo Rag paper, and I loved them. 
Therefore I think I would be perfectly happy with PiezoTones & the 
1280. However, the ability to do arbitrary tinting of monochromatic 
images with software like Imageprint 5.0 is hard to resist.

Opinions, suggestions?

thanks,
Mike

I hear you.  I am facing the same problem.

I have sat on the sidelines for 2 years, scarred off by clogging, banding etc. 
with the original Piezo inks.  Then, the prospect of the 2200 seemed like it 
might be a perfect solution to produce neutral B/W prints, toned prints, and 
color with one machine.  The problem with the 2200 remains:
1)metamerism (better than prev. Epson printers, but still there)
2) longevity relative to the piezo inks
3) durability (matte black apparently can rub off art papers fairly easily)
4) print quality (under a loupe still not equal to piezo; tonal separation etc.)

Even with custom profiles, or GB software most of  these problems remain.  
Then, came the prospect of the 2200 with Imageprint 5.0. 

 Hopefully, this RIP may provide what we both want: a printer than can 
produce quality neutral, or toned B/W prints or color, without the problem of 
metamerism.  That is, if we believe the excitement of the digitaldog.  Problem 
is, the mac software is apparently still buggy and OS X solutions are pending.  
As well, the 2200 driver is still be worked on.  So we have to wait for a while. 
Another big problem is that it is $495 on top of the cost of the 2200.  Maybe, 
this could be bundled in the future according to Andy.  It would be nice.

Then, yesterday I received my PiezoTone samples images in the mail and 
they are great.  Much better than anything I have seen from the 2200 so far.  
But, if I go that route, I can't do arbitrary toning etc.  Plus, I would need a 
separate color printer.  There is no perfect solution ... yet.  I am happy to wait 
for the next month to watch this Imageprint story.  But, I am starting to sway 
towards the 1280 with PiezoTones.  Then, I can't decide which gray tone 
selenium vs. warm neutral.  Even if I go this route, some are still advocating 
that Imageprint 5.0 is a better driver for the hextone B/W inks than the piezo 
plugin.  Interestingly, as I pointed out this morning, this software is now for 
sale on inkjetmall.   This is getting to complicated.  I am going to go home and 
open some good red wine.

By the way,  I don't really see the magenta, eggplant, etc in my selenium print 
sample that much.  Perhaps the sample image doesn't have enough midtones 
to see these colors.  But, the blacks are significantly better than the first 
sample I ever got from inkjet mall a few years ago with the sundance inks.  It is 
night and day.  

I didn't answer your question, but may have left more questions unanswered.

"lawrencetrek" wrote:

> By the way,  I don't really see the magenta, eggplant, etc in my selenium print 
> sample that much.  Perhaps the sample image doesn't have enough midtones 
> to see these colors. 

Hi Lawrence,

I'm one of the Selenium users who mentioned the eggplant tones. I think now 
it's more of a function of the paper - brightners maybe. Also if I compare a 
Piezotone Warm and Selenium print side by side I see the "eggplant" color in the 
Selenium print. Not sure what it all means!

John V

Lawrence,

Actaully you brought up some good points which I wasn't aware of, 
such as the durability and quality not being as good as the piezo 
prints. I am also leaning towards the 1280 with the Pizeo inks since:

1. The quality and results have been proven to me
2. The software and ink sets are more mature
3. It's a cheaper combination

I'm ready to buy and get starting printing now, so I'd rather not 
wait around for some number of months to see if the more expensive 
2200/Imageprint combination really works well. That's always 
something I can consider later on after I sell prints and recoup some 
of my equipment costs.

I also recently received the PizeoTone samples from Inkjetmall, and I 
am very pleased with the results. I am either going to get the 
Selenium Tone ink set, or the Selenium Tone *and* Warn Neutral ink 
sets. However, I'm not sure if there is too much cost or ink wastage 
associated with switching back and forth. The Selenium ink's blacks 
are better, and I don't see the eggplant or magenta cast which has 
been previously mentioned.

thanks for your help,
Mike

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "lawrencetrek" 
<ltitle@h...> wrote:
> I hear you.  I am facing the same problem.
> 
> I have sat on the sidelines for 2 years, scarred off by clogging, 
banding etc. 
> with the original Piezo inks.  Then, the prospect of the 2200 
seemed like it 
> might be a perfect solution to produce neutral B/W prints, toned 
prints, and 
> color with one machine.  The problem with the 2200 remains:
> 1)metamerism (better than prev. Epson printers, but still there)
> 2) longevity relative to the piezo inks
> 3) durability (matte black apparently can rub off art papers fairly 
easily)
> 4) print quality (under a loupe still not equal to piezo; tonal 
separation etc.)
> 
> Even with custom profiles, or GB software most of  these problems 
remain.  
> Then, came the prospect of the 2200 with Imageprint 5.0. 
> 
>  Hopefully, this RIP may provide what we both want: a printer than 
can 
> produce quality neutral, or toned B/W prints or color, without the 
problem of 
> metamerism.  That is, if we believe the excitement of the 
digitaldog.  Problem 
> is, the mac software is apparently still buggy and OS X solutions 
are pending.  
> As well, the 2200 driver is still be worked on.  So we have to wait 
for a while. 
> Another big problem is that it is $495 on top of the cost of the 
2200.  Maybe, 
> this could be bundled in the future according to Andy.  It would be 
nice.
> 
> Then, yesterday I received my PiezoTone samples images in the mail 
and 
> they are great.  Much better than anything I have seen from the 
2200 so far.  
> But, if I go that route, I can't do arbitrary toning etc.  Plus, I 
would need a 
> separate color printer.  There is no perfect solution ... yet.  I 
am happy to wait 
> for the next month to watch this Imageprint story.  But, I am 
starting to sway 
> towards the 1280 with PiezoTones.  Then, I can't decide which gray 
tone 
> selenium vs. warm neutral.  Even if I go this route, some are still 
advocating 
> that Imageprint 5.0 is a better driver for the hextone B/W inks 
than the piezo 
> plugin.  Interestingly, as I pointed out this morning, this 
software is now for 
> sale on inkjetmall.   This is getting to complicated.  I am going 
to go home and 
> open some good red wine.
> 
> By the way,  I don't really see the magenta, eggplant, etc in my 
selenium print 
> sample that much.  Perhaps the sample image doesn't have enough 
midtones 
> to see these colors.  But, the blacks are significantly better than 
the first 
> sample I ever got from inkjet mall a few years ago with the 
sundance inks.  It is 
> night and day.  
> 
> I didn't answer your question, but may have left more questions 
unanswered.