Digital BW, The Print

----- Original Message -----
From: "jwpenland" <penland.walpen@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 12:57 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: The perfect print


> What is a
> > perfect print to you? I think technical merit is important, but I
> > think it goes beyond that. Thanks for sharing.
> >
> > Barry Gilliand

> and, oh i forgot, there IS NO PERFECT!   so why not just live it    jno

Praise the lord that there are those who speak for the the intrinsic value
of the medium in the true sense of creativity. The tools are nothing but
tools. Art has been created on the walls of caves with earth colors, on
burlap, masonite, with steel oil drums, marble, etc. It all becomes the
responsibility of the creator. There was an exhibition at The Museum of
Modern Art in 1968 that dealt with the machine, mathematics, etc. as it
relates to art. I will relate a couple of quotes from the catalogue. The
computer is only a tool.......the possibilities inherent in the computer as
a creative tool will do little to change those idioms of art which rely
primarily on the dialogue between the artist, his ideas, and the canvas.
They will however, increase the scope of art and contribute to its
diversity.

Mathematical methods could deal only with quantitative, not qualitative,
phenomena. Sorry if I bored you all but I would hope that the end is much
more important than the means.  Barry Schaffer
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

using a holga taught me this - i keep thinking, 'i wish this was sharper, or
the neg held more details - but I like the images!

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "jwpenland" <penland.walpen@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 6:57 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: The perfect print


> What is a
> > perfect print to you? I think technical merit is important, but I
> > think it goes beyond that. Thanks for sharing.
> >
> > Barry Gilliand
>
> i have never spoken here   i am not a photographer, though i use
photography    i am a painter, printer etc      trust YOUR instinct and what
you think is good    this
> discussion and others get bogged down in technical things    the final
criteria is your own judgement   and all of ours differ     LOOK  and feel
and judge   JUST
> YOU     i printed a landscape i took with my Dimage 7 on my Epson 900 and
on epson 3000    with my naked myopic eye i can see the 3000 is sharper and
better but
> the 900 is the better aesthetic thing    so just keep what YOU like in the
forefront   (for all those experts who will crucify me, i have taught art
and been an artist for
> many years, i had two very prestigious foundation grants   i STILL SAY
trust your own instincts and what you think is best   and know that it will
not agree with
> everyone and sometimes not with anyone    the ticket is the enjoying of
seeing and the feeling    we are not in this for the money, even if we need
it   have fun wuth it)
>
> and, oh i forgot, there IS NO PERFECT!   so why not just live it    jno
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Thanks Tom, 

You can break many of the rules and still have an image with terrific
impact. If one knows the rules on how to make a technically great print
and then breaks them, that's fine with me. There are many great
photographs where technical quality is not always possible, depending on
the circumstances. Journalism and Street Photography come to mind. But
in those fields, its definitely the image first, technique later.

I once saw a show with a lot of Irving Penn's images in Chicago, many
years ago.  The images were huge, and had great impact, but were
technically inferior prints. All of them were much in need of spotting.
You could see dust and scratches on one of the images from 6 feet away.
This just should not be! Some were terribly gray and there really was no
reason for it. It was almost like he let somebody else print them and
then didn't check the quality. There were Ansel Adams prints in the next
room, and what a difference! (of course my favorite photographer has
always been Ansel.)

However, an artist can show you anything he wants. You don't have to
like it. Some just exude technical quality along with a beautiful image.
Others, it's just the image, no technical quality at all.

Jerry

> Those sound like pretty good "rules" to me, too...adding that you can
> only "break" them if you know them and understand them and then break
> them for a reason.
> 
> It seems there is more "bashing" of the technical side of photography
> overpowering the artistic side in the digital forums...only natural,
> I guess, since digital photography is pretty impressive technology.
> 
> But I have always believed also, that you can only get free from the
> technical part of photography (film or digital) by knowing the
> technology and equipment limits so well that you were able to use the
> tools instinctively and intuitively as opposed to the photographer
> who really has not put in the time to "know all there is to know"
> about the technology and is therefore more of a slave to it (and the
> manuals).
> 
> The great thing about this particular forum is that there is a
> sporadic intense thread that nurtures one or the other (or both)
> concepts...that go into the making of the ART. It really doesn't
> matter which side motivates you to start the process...you need BOTH
> to really complete it.
> 
> Your work is a great example of "out of the box" thinking and
> creativity that is possible only because of your immaculate
> preparation on the technology side... Keep it coming.
> 
> Tom O'Connell
>