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CIS Carts REinstall

CIS Carts REinstall

2002-09-17 by Mark Romine

To achieve a vacuum with a CIS can this only be done once before the
carts are installed or can a vacuum be achieved at any time after the
carts have had their seal broken by installation? The reason for my
asking I am in the process of installing new carts for my CIS and I am
having trouble getting a vacuum with the new carts already installed.

Thanks,
Mark

--
Mark Romine
MARK ROMINE PHOTOGRAPHY
227 Fairway Drive
Bloomington, IL 61701
309-662-4258
http://www.markrominephoto.com

Re: CIS Carts REinstall

2002-09-17 by Jeff Randall

Once you install the carts and break the seal over the exit ports, 
the game is up.  If you try to pull a vacuum, all you will do is pull 
air back through the print head.  I have no idea if this will work, 
but you could try to tape over the broken seals, pull a vacuum and 
fill the CIS carts, let the inks settle as in the instruction, then 
remove the tape and quickly install the carts.  Note:  You should 
install an existing set of carts with ink as soon as you remove the 
empty CIS carts--you don't want the print head drying out.  Before 
you install the full CIS carts, you should make sure you can get a 
good nozzle check with the temporary carts.  Since you probably 
pulled a lot of air back through the head, you might have to do 
several head cleanings and maybe wait overnight.

Good Luck.

Jeff Randall

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Mark Romine <klick3@g...> 
wrote:
> To achieve a vacuum with a CIS can this only be done once before the
> carts are installed or can a vacuum be achieved at any time after 
the
> carts have had their seal broken by installation? The reason for my
> asking I am in the process of installing new carts for my CIS and I 
am
> having trouble getting a vacuum with the new carts already 
installed.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark
> 
> --
> Mark Romine
> MARK ROMINE PHOTOGRAPHY
> 227 Fairway Drive
> Bloomington, IL 61701
> 309-662-4258
> http://www.markrominephoto.com

Re: CIS Carts REinstall

2002-09-17 by jim hayes

Well, you could try two different tricks:

1) MIS and maybe we-Ink too sell a plastic plug for the bottom of the 
cart chamber. It is a one use thing. It is not the metal Rivet sold by 
MIS, not the EZ-plug sold by nomorecarts. This is a big round plastic 
plug which MIS should still be selling (let's hope). Go to the MIS 
site and look under accesories. You shoe-horn this thing in and it is 
supposed to give a fairly good seal, or at least I heard it can-never 
tried it myself-look on the we-ink site for the same item and see if 
they still give direction for using the plug to do a vacuum refill on 
a used cart. Obviously I'm giving all this to you from memory, so 
check it out for yourself.

2) MIS has a procedure for getting rid of air or "foamy ink" in their 
carts/CFS. The procedure might be listed under CFS FAQ or some such as 
"recovery method". But you probably should have some ink in the carts 
to start out with. Basically you take a syringe and put a MIS "bottom 
fill adapter" on it and suck air/ink out through the bottom of the 
cart and return it to the bottle. Repeat many times until the ink 
in the drawing syringe has no bubbles left. I don't know whether this 
would help you or not- I have used it to clear a tiny bit of air out 
of my CFS with good results. It might be adaptable to your problem.

At anyrate, good luck,
Jim H. 






--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Mark Romine <klick3@g...> 
wrote:
> To achieve a vacuum with a CIS can this only be done once before the
> carts are installed or can a vacuum be achieved at any time after 
the
> carts have had their seal broken by installation? The reason for my
> asking I am in the process of installing new carts for my CIS and I 
am
> having trouble getting a vacuum with the new carts already 
installed.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark
> 
> --
> Mark Romine
> MARK ROMINE PHOTOGRAPHY
> 227 Fairway Drive
> Bloomington, IL 61701
> 309-662-4258
> http://www.markrominephoto.com

Re: CIS Carts REinstall

2002-09-17 by jim hayes

Sorry, scratch option #1. I don't see that plug listed anywhere on MIS 
or other sites anymore. Odd, they used to have it...
Jim H.







--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "jim hayes" <jimhayes@j...> 
wrote:
> Well, you could try two different tricks:
> 
> 1) MIS and maybe we-Ink too sell a plastic plug for the bottom of 
the 
> cart chamber. It is a one use thing. It is not the metal Rivet sold 
by 
> MIS, not the EZ-plug sold by nomorecarts. This is a big round 
plastic 
> plug which MIS should still be selling (let's hope). Go to the MIS 
> site and look under accesories. You shoe-horn this thing in and it 
is

Re: CIS Carts REinstall

2002-09-17 by Martin Wesley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Mark Romine <klick3@g...> 
wrote:
> To achieve a vacuum with a CIS can this only be done once before the
> carts are installed or can a vacuum be achieved at any time after 
the
> carts have had their seal broken by installation? The reason for my
> asking I am in the process of installing new carts for my CIS and I 
am
> having trouble getting a vacuum with the new carts already 
installed.
> 

Mark,

I am not quite sure where you are in the process of installing them 
but once the bottom seals are broken you can't get a vacuum on the 
cart unless you reseal the bottom openings with something. Try 
electrical tape. Also if there is any ink in the cartridges you will 
suck it into the vacuum pump, which is not fatal to the pump but very 
messy.

If the bottom seals are broken you can also use the original method 
of filling the CIS carts by inserting a syringe in the bottom 
openings with the tubes already in the ink bottles and pull the ink 
into the cart.

Martin Wesley

Re: CIS Carts REinstall

2002-09-17 by Mark Romine

Thanks Jeff,

Mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Jeff Randall" <jrandall@c...> wrote:
> Once you install the carts and break the seal over the exit ports, 
> the game is up.....

Re: CIS Carts REinstall

2002-09-17 by jim hayes

If still interested:

http://www.inksupply.com/index1.cfm?source=html/seal.html

to see pix and instruction for the replacement seal (option#1). Maybe 
MIS or someone still has these for sale if you contact them directly. 
Jim H.



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "jim hayes" <jimhayes@j...> 
wrote:
> Sorry, scratch option #1. I don't see that plug listed anywhere on 
MIS 
> or other sites anymore. Odd, they used to have it...
> Jim H.
> 

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "jim hayes" 
<jimhayes@j...> 
> wrote:
> > Well, you could try two different tricks:
> > 
> > 1) MIS and maybe we-Ink too sell a plastic plug for the bottom of 
> the 
> > cart chamber. It is a one use thing. It is not the metal Rivet 
sold 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> by 
> > MIS, not the EZ-plug sold by nomorecarts. This is a big round 
> plastic 
> > plug which MIS should still be selling (let's hope). Go to the MIS 
> > site and look under accesories. You shoe-horn this thing in and it 
> is

Re: CIS Carts REinstall

2002-09-17 by Jeff Randall

The replacement seals have an open hole in the middle to fit over the 
nipples in the printhead.  They will not hold a vacuum. 

Jeff Randall 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "jim hayes" <jimhayes@j...> 
wrote:
> If still interested:
> 
> http://www.inksupply.com/index1.cfm?source=html/seal.html
> 
> to see pix and instruction for the replacement seal (option#1). 
Maybe 
> MIS or someone still has these for sale if you contact them 
directly. 
> Jim H.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "jim hayes" 
<jimhayes@j...> 
> wrote:
> > Sorry, scratch option #1. I don't see that plug listed anywhere 
on 
> MIS 
> > or other sites anymore. Odd, they used to have it...
> > Jim H.
> > 
> 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "jim hayes" 
> <jimhayes@j...> 
> > wrote:
> > > Well, you could try two different tricks:
> > > 
> > > 1) MIS and maybe we-Ink too sell a plastic plug for the bottom 
of 
> > the 
> > > cart chamber. It is a one use thing. It is not the metal Rivet 
> sold 
> > by 
> > > MIS, not the EZ-plug sold by nomorecarts. This is a big round 
> > plastic 
> > > plug which MIS should still be selling (let's hope). Go to the 
MIS 
> > > site and look under accesories. You shoe-horn this thing in and 
it 
> > is

Re: CIS Carts REinstall

2002-09-19 by Mark Romine

What about if you pull the carts to clean the heads will this action also break the vacumm? 

I have an unbelievable clog, worst I have ever seen in four or five years of printing with Epsons, even after soaking the parking pad with cleaner 
and letting it stand overnite the same number of nozzels are still clogged this morning. This is an 1160 btw.

The way this whole problem started, I was getting decresing density in midtones almost to the point of getting posterization. I had not printed 
much of anything in six to eight weeks, thus I assumed that the heads were experiencing some build up. So I thought the heads needed cleaning, 
pull the CIS carts and flushed each port with windex and a siringe. This resulted in nearly every nozzel being clogged, with cleaning cycles I have 
now got about 70 to 75% of nozzels opened. So I thought that I would try cleaning the tubbing and I bought new CIS carts, these are now 
installed but no improvements on the clogggs.

Anyone any suggestions?

Thanks,
Mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Jeff Randall" <jrandall@c...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Once you install the carts and break the seal over the exit ports, 
> the game is up.  If you try to pull a vacuum, all you will do is pull 
> air back through the print head.

Re: CIS Carts REinstall

2002-09-20 by Jeff Randall

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Mark Romine" <klick3@g...> 
wrote:
> What about if you pull the carts to clean the heads will this 
action also break the vacumm? 
>

Mark:  There is no significant vacuum once the carts are filled with 
ink.  The original vacuum is *replaced* with the ink that is sucked 
into the cart during the original fill.  The ink then is pulled into 
the cart be capilillary action and the tiny vacuum created when the 
ink is *pumped* through the printhead.

You major clog could have been caused by pulling air through the head 
when you first installed the carts prior to vacuum filling the carts 
or drying out of the head during a prolonged installation process.

Jeff Randall

Re: CIS Carts REinstall

2002-09-20 by jim hayes

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Mark Romine" <klick3@g...> 
wrote:
> What about if you pull the carts to clean the heads will this action 
also break the vacumm? 
>

No vacuum involved after carts full- but you could get air in the head 
and carts. You can remove air from the carts with a syringe and MIS 
"bottom fill adapter" using their recovery procedure for a CFS- should 
work for a CIS. Even if the ink isn't foamy, it can get out big air 
pockets, if by chance it is an issue.

 
> I have an unbelievable clog, worst I have ever seen in four or five 
years of printing with Epsons, even after soaking the parking pad with 
cleaner 
> and letting it stand overnite the same number of nozzels are still 
clogged this morning. This is an 1160 btw.
> 
> The way this whole problem started, I was getting decresing density 
in midtones almost to the point of getting posterization. I had not 
printed 
> much of anything in six to eight weeks,

If you were getting good nozzle checks, and if the ink was older than 
5 or 6 months, and if you had shaken the bottles up just a tad, 
then...

You might want to replace the inkset, it sounds like it may have 
problems, though I don't know which ink you're using. This condition 
was one of the main symptoms of DSS I discovered with the old Piezo 
inkset. At best I could only clear about 90% of the problem by 
inserting Epson carts. A couple people had more complete sucess by 
injecting Fantastik into the heads. In hindsight, I realized that I 
should of replaced the ink at that point, as the DSS only came back 
within two months.

Use your own discretion of course, inksets can be $$ to replace. And I 
would make sure all three conditions above have been met first. 

 thus I assumed that the 
heads were experiencing some build up.

This was the case with my DSS too, as inserting Epson carts 
temporarily cleared 90% of problem.  


 So I thought the heads needed 
cleaning, 
> pull the CIS carts and flushed each port with windex and a siringe. 
This resulted in nearly every nozzel being clogged, with cleaning 
cycles I have 
> now got about 70 to 75% of nozzels opened.

What did you use as ink/fluid to perform the cleaning cycles? I 
wouldn't reinstall the CIS with the pig ink. I also would not use 
cleaning carts. I would only use Epson carts.


 So I thought that I would 
try cleaning the tubbing and I bought new CIS carts, these are now 
> installed but no improvements on the clogggs.

Sounds like air in there- Epson carts/purge patterns could clear. Your 
pig ink has to be okay too though. You can run just one color purge 
pattern full page or all colors-files on MIS site.

> 
> Anyone any suggestions?

Okay, as suggestions, not as a font of absolute wisdom<g>:

Use Epson carts to flush out heads/with purge patterns. If on the off 
chance ink is bad as defined above consider replacing (this would also 
mean yet another replacement set of CIS carts). If you stay with the 
old CIS carts (punctured seal), this may help slightly... inserting a 
syringe with a bottom fill adapter into exit port, drawing out ink, 
dumping into bottle, repeating, etc- to remove excess air. Be carefull 
not to poke any filter/screen that may be near exit port in CIS cart 
when using bottom fill adapter, insert gently.
Jim H.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark
>

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