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[Digital BW] MIS FS-FSN blends

[Digital BW] MIS FS-FSN blends

2002-10-01 by Paul Roark

Andre,

>I'm about to dispose of the original Piezo inks ...

I'd keep the PiezoBW black.  It's essentially if not exactly the same as the
FS black.  (I wonder whether the new PiezoTone "MuseumBlack" isn't also the
same thing -- hopefully someone will do a "sniff" test soon and/or send me a
couple of test strips for fade testing.)

>But now I find out that the FS-N inkset may have a bluish cast ...

It's about 0.02 density units cool on EAM, plus or minus 0.01 depending on
any number of variables.  I just measured a 50% patch of an FS-N test strip
that has been in the dark for several months.  It read c=0.64, m=0.64,
y=0.63.  This is what I call 0.01 unit cool.  This is barely "blue" at all
according to the X-Rite, and I don't see blue when I look at the test strip.

Selenium-toned silver prints get significantly cooler in the shadows -- mine
measure up to 0.05 units cool (cyan greater than yellow).  Of course, the
variable-tone approach was done, in part, because people have their own
tastes and views as to how cool or warm a print should be.

> ... the original FS inkset looks green under tungsten lighting...

I've never used the inkset, but I added more magenta than cyan pigments to
cool down the FS inks for the FS-N.  I think that a hair of magenta does
look good in a "neutral" print.

>...the FSN-K and the FS-K are the same.

Yes.

>I'm ready to re-order some FS inks for blending, ...

I haven't experimented with warming up FS-N.  I'd almost prefer adding a bit
of yellow pigment (the new tough one) rather than blending with FS.  A small
amount of yellow would probably not affect the non-warming character of FS-N
at all, whereas the blending with FS will cause the resulting inkset to
warm.  But, if you just added yellow, the densities would shift slightly
from what they are supposed to be.

Good luck.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] MIS FS-FSN blends

2002-10-01 by Martin Wesley

----- Original Message -----
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From: "sceptre12345" <am1000@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:58 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] MIS FS-FSN blends


> Martin, Paul and others
>
> I'm about to dispose of the original Piezo inks because of the
> greenies associated with these inks (CIS - 2/3 full). The FS-N inkset
> that I ordered should arrive this week.
>
> But now I find out that the FS-N inkset may have a bluish cast while
> the original FS inkset looks green under tungsten lighting. And now,
> to compensate, some people are making the own blends from the two
> inkset.
>
> (Rant should go here)...lol
>
> I've read message 19947 where Paul says that the FSN-K and the FS-K
> are the same. In message 19691, Bob gives us a blending ratio of the
> two inksets but Martin advises about being closer to the FS-N.
>
> So, I'm ready to re-order some FS inks for blending, but I'm no
> chemist and not much of an experimenter. So where should I be going:
> 80%-20% evenly across the two inkset ? I have an Epson 1160 with
> Piezo V5.1.3e

Andre,

First, what print hue are you looking for exactly? Dead neutral or slightly
warm or slightly cool?

Printing with blends of FS and FSN has not been done a lot. I would guess
that dead neutral is in the 80/20 to 70/30 range (FSN/FS).

With the slight hue of these various neutral ink sets there is some
variation in how people perceive them. To many the FSN looks completely
neutral while to me and others it is a bit blue, although this is paper
dependent. Neutral/cool papers like EAM, LPM and Eclipse will show the blue
much more than some of the warmer papers such as Photo Rag since the yellow
in the base offsets some of the blue in the ink.

If you want to go this route then I would suggest you hand fill carts and do
some experimenting to see what you like. I still prefer the
Selenium-PiezoTone grays with the FSN black myself. It is a highly personal
matter of taste and you may have to do several trials to see what you like.
Join a couple one of Tom O'Connell's print exchanges so you can see a
variety of inks/paper combinations.


Martin Wesley

http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

Re: [Digital BW] MIS FS-FSN blends

2002-10-01 by Moreno Polloni

>  I still prefer the
> Selenium-PiezoTone grays with the FSN black myself. It is a highly
personal
> matter of taste and you may have to do several trials to see what you
like.

Does this combo work with the Piezo driver and canned profiles?

Re: [Digital BW] MIS FS-FSN blends

2002-10-01 by Martin Wesley

----- Original Message -----
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From: "Moreno Polloni" <mp@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS FS-FSN blends


> >  I still prefer the
> > Selenium-PiezoTone grays with the FSN black myself. It is a highly
> personal
> > matter of taste and you may have to do several trials to see what you
> like.
>
> Does this combo work with the Piezo driver and canned profiles?
>


Moreno,

It has worked for me on my 1280. The wedges I have printed are not as smooth
as wedges printed with the original Piezo ink or with the FS inks but I am
able to get prints I find satisfying. This is taking negatives from scratch,
not trying to print files optimized for the old ink and then printing with
the new ink. Comparing wedges printed with the Sel-PT grays & PT-K, to
wedges printed with the Sel-PT grays & FSN-K, the use of the FSN-K appears
to give a bit better tone ramp in the low end. This is probably because the
FSN-K is a closer match to the original Piezo-K than the PT-K.

Other people have reported poor results with the PiezoTone inks and the
Piezo driver on the 1280 and other printers. So there is a lot of
uncertainly with this. Give it a try but keep all of this in mind.

I am working with Colorbyte to see if I can get some profiles for the
Sel-PT/FSN-K ink set for IP5 but no success so far.

Martin Wesley

http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

Re: [Digital BW] MIS FS-FSN blends

2002-10-02 by sceptre12345

Thanks to both Paul and Martin for their informative reply on MIS FS-
FSN blends.

Two paths to explore have been provided. One to pursue MIS FS-FSN 
blends to get rid of the blue cast, the other path testing different 
paper to see if the blue cast is not diminished by the base tint of 
the paper.

Like I said, I'm no chemist, so I'll try the paper test first, but 
Photo Rag ain't exactly a low cost paper. I still got some paper 
leftovers from way back, so I'll try those.

In the mean time, I'd like to hear from those who will testing some 
FS-FSN blends.

Regards,
Andre

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