Digital BW, The Print

woops I meant these guys  http://www.a1m.co.uk/blackwhite.html

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 1:38 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] lambda BW - again!


> http://www.gaspweb.co.uk/paw2002/source/wk30.htm Has anyone seen any
output
> from these guys? If so are they neutral prints?
>
> Julian
> -----------------------------------
> Julian Thomas
> Bruc 168-6-1
> 08037 Barcelona
>
> Website at www.foundobjectsgallery.com
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> current exhibition: www.thesight.com
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> Streetphotography at
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> http://www.borderless-photos.de/jthomas/jthomas-01.html
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> tfno 679676321
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Julian Thomas writes:
 > woops I meant these guys  http://www.a1m.co.uk/blackwhite.html

A long time ago (ok, back in October), Julian asked whether anyone had
seen any black and white output by the folks above.

I don't think that I saw any feedback, and I'd like to extend the
question a bit.

Does anyone have any experience with black and white prints from a
Lambda, a Durst [sic?], a LightJet, a Frontier, or any of the other
"paint the image with light on real photo paper" type systems?

The only site that I've (posted by smdey4@...) w/ Black and White
Lightjet prints is:

  http://www.afterimagegallery.com/osbornnew.htm

g.

-----Original Message-----

From: George Hartzell [mailto:hartzell@...] 
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 3:40 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] lambda BW - again!


 <snip> 
Does anyone have any experience with black and white prints from a
Lambda, a Durst [sic?], a LightJet, a Frontier, or any of the other
"paint the image with light on real photo paper" type systems?
 <snip> 

I had a wedding not long ago where the bride ordered a lot of B&W prints
from me.  The originals were color negatives, scanned by my lab and
printed via their Frontier.  The lab is owned by a wedding photographer
and they do the best job of any lab I've used.  Their color prints are
fantastic.  The B&W prints from the Frontier were (IMO) just OK.  They
were good enough for the bride and family, but nothing like the
traditional optical silver prints I make on fiber.  They had an obvious
"dye" look about them and there was no glow or beauty to them.  The
black was acceptable, but not deep enough for me.  The gradations were
smooth but the midtones seemed to me to be suffering a little in that
there was not enough separation and they appeared a little "muddy".  I
would not hesitate to order them again for most clients, but you and I
know there are much better B&W options, whereas most laypeople really
aren't as picky.  On a scale of 1-10 where an original Ansel Adams print
is a 10, my silver prints on fiber are a 7 or 8, I'd give these about a
5.5.  But then, remember this was from an original Portra NC color
negative (not much contrast), with no local manipulation in the printing
process either.

Thanks,
Ed
http://lightandsilver.com <http://lightandsilver.com/>  





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, another very successful user is David Fokos's. He uses Lightjet 5000 
output and the results are spectacular! I was fortunate to have dinner with 
him a couple weeks ago as he was in Seattle to open an exhibit. He uses  <A HREF="http://www.calypsoinc.com/data/lightjet.html">
http://www.calypsoinc.com/data/lightjet.html</A>   in California. He did say that 
he has never been to there lab, and all correspondence is done buy phone or 
mail. With some tweaks and plenty of returned prints they now know what he 
likes for tone. His grayscale images do have a color layer added by him, and 
his files are archived for reprinting. Color paper having batch variations 
occasionally he gets a tint he doesn't like. Seeing the prints I could not 
see a color cast I could identify, they simply look neutral. Its a beautiful 
tone and he did work at it. He is very picky about the tone. The web images 
I've seen of David Foko's seem very close to the tint of his gallery prints. 
Definitely no greens or yellows. They are much richer looking than the web 
images and many are 30x30 at close to 4 grand ea.  <A HREF="http://www.benhamgallery.com/exhibit/index.html">
http://www.benhamgallery.com/exhibit/index.html</A>
Steven Meyers

In a message dated 12/28/2002 12:43:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
hartzell@... writes:

> Does anyone have any experience with black and white prints from a
> Lambda, a Durst [sic?], a LightJet, a Frontier, or any of the other
> "paint the image with light on real photo paper" type systems?
> 
> The only site that I've (posted by smdey4@...) w/ Black and White
> Lightjet prints is:
> 
>  http://www.afterimagegallery.com/osbornnew.htm
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm about to order some 24" paper for my 7000.

I've been told the Photo Rag 308 in rolls is problematic, as it tends 
to be too "curved" towards the end of the roll. On the other hand, 
I'd prefer the greater heft on 20x24 and 24x36 prints. 188 seems a 
bit light even at 13x19.

Should I purchase cut sheets instead for larger prints?

Bruce

-- 
Bruce C. Kinch
Associate Professor of Photography
The Art Institute of Boston at Lesley University

> I've been told the Photo Rag 308 in rolls is problematic, as it 
tends 
> to be too "curved" towards the end of the roll. On the other hand, 
> I'd prefer the greater heft on 20x24 and 24x36 prints. 188 seems a 
> bit light even at 13x19.

I have not yet gotten to the end of my first roll of 24" PR 308, 
though I anticipate some problems there.  I hope the roll is actually 
a bit longer than spec'ed so if there is some unusable paper at the 
end I won't be throwing it out.  I bought the roll for the 
convenience over loading large sheets.  I usually print on PR 308 in 
13x19 sheets.  I love that size and weight.  I would only buy 188 for 
proofing, as its a little less expensive.

One thing to note:  The 7000 cannot cut 308 PR!  You must do it 
manually, the cutter gets most of it cut, but not completely, leaving 
you with a heavy print pulling on a small area of the paper--big tear 
risk.  I set the printer to not cut and to print a cut line.  I run a 
number of prints and just cut them after all are printed.

One other thing:  The pricing on rolls does not seem to be much if 
any cheaper than buying sheets, at least at digitalartsupplies.com , 
where I was buying paper.

Ernest Burden III

George - I think it is quite possible to get great looking b&w prints from
digital files on the printers you mentioned if you go through some work up
front to maximize the likelihood of quality.

I use a lab near me that has Light Jet and Pictrography printers.  I have
gotten profiles from them for the different papers (Kodak or Fuji, luster or
glossy) they use on the machines, as well as some test prints from each
machine of the equivalent of step wedges with percentages marked.  I also
use the same software and hardware that they do to calibrate my monitor.

When you see the output of the test files, you can get a sense of the range
of the printers (specifically how much detail they can hold near the dark
and light end of the scales) and edit your files appropriately.

-----Original Message-----

From: George Hartzell [mailto:hartzell@...] 

 
Does anyone have any experience with black and white prints from a
Lambda, a Durst [sic?], a LightJet, a Frontier, or any of the other
"paint the image with light on real photo paper" type systems?
 

I had several large format (40 x 50") B&W prints made on Ilfochrome Classic, using the Durst Lambda at 400 dpi.
The prints were made from images I scanned using the Imacon Flextight.
Results were amazing.  Of course the results are completely diferent from silverprints. My prints were high gloss exhibition prints mounted between aluminium and plexi. 
A disadvantage of this process compared to silverprints is that these Ilfochromes are very sensible to metamerism. 

Best regards,

Jo Brunenberg

http://www.jobrunenberg.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jo Brunenberg" 
<jobnl@e...> wrote:
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: George Hartzell [mailto:hartzell@k...] 
> 
>  
> Does anyone have any experience with black and white prints from a
> Lambda, a Durst [sic?], a LightJet, a Frontier, or any of the other
> "paint the image with light on real photo paper" type systems?
>  
> 
> I had several large format (40 x 50") B&W prints made on Ilfochrome 
Classic, using the Durst Lambda at 400 dpi.
> The prints were made from images I scanned using the Imacon 
Flextight.
> Results were amazing.  Of course the results are completely
diferent 
from silverprints. My prints were high gloss exhibition prints
mounted 
between aluminium and plexi. 
> A disadvantage of this process compared to silverprints is that 
these Ilfochromes are very sensible to metamerism. 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jo Brunenberg
> 
> http://www.jobrunenberg.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
>
The lab I work at has frontier and lightjet printing Equipment.
The thing you have to be aware of when using these systems for 
B&W output is that they use RGB files to produce a color R4 processed 
print. So the light that the print is displayed under determines 
neutrality and color cast of the  final print.




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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]