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From Piezography3000 - interest to workflow users

From Piezography3000 - interest to workflow users

2002-10-12 by magerabamb

The following was published on the Piezography3000 users list.
Because so  many users in this group use these workflows I though this 
should be of  interest to them. Make sure to click on link. The pictures ar=
e cool.

Brian
Show quoted textHide quoted text
Subject:  PiezoTone Original Black and Workflows

An important tech bulletin has been produced that has information
which will affect users of workflow procedures. It is located at

http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/workflow/workflow-differences.html

This page illustrates the dramatic differences in how PiezographyBW
plugin and the Woolfe workflow handle the printing of a monochromatic 
image.We have used colored inks so that you can easily see the
differences in the processes.

PiezographyBW plugin is a simple quad process which uses overlapping
bell shaped curves of yellow, magenta, and cyan followed by a very short
black printing. The processing of tone follows from weakest dilution
through  strongest dilution.

The Wolfe Workflow curiously enough, works in an opposite manner. The
weakest dilution (or yellow position) is used under the black and the
main tone is carried almost exclusively by cyan.

We have just received this week, our first printed samples of prints
which show rapid fading in the PiezoTone Original Black. Also, thankfully
the artist submitted her workflow process which we duplicated on the
files on the tech bulletin page listed above.

We obviously do not use workflow procedures because we specialize in
quad black workflows at Cone Editions Press. Simple Quads were first
developed   by Cone Editions for IRIS Graphics in the early 1990s and we 
have never had  to use an RGB driver to produce a quad black print. We do 
not know if all  workflow procedures follow the idiosyncrasies of the Wolfe=
 
Workflow. But we do know without any doubt, that users of these workflow 
need to understand more about how their workflows may be affected by, or 
may affect the use of the inks they choose.

PiezoTone Original Black is not a similar formula to the PiezoTone
gray positions which are comprised of pure pigment without any other
colorants or density agents not comprised of pigment. This is why the 
PiezoTone gray positions are so light resistant. PiezoTone Original Black i=
s
comprised of carbon pigment and metal complex. The metal complex 
produced a very dark black optical density which was unique to these inkset=
s 
and which would fade at a rate to that which the original ink set produced =
in 
the black position. On the other hand, with the workflows, this density fad=
e is 
not supported by anything other than yellow and small amounts of cyan and 
magenta.

MuseumBlack is made in the same way as the PiezoTone gray positions.
That is, it is made of pure pigment. It should be used instead of the
original black if users insist on workflows. However, the cost of the
PiezographyBW plugin in so inexpensive now, that workflow users should 
really consider its  use.

We are thankful for the one single user who was considerate enough to
send us printed results and workflow process. It makes all the difference
in the world when users who are having problems send in specific examples 
of their problems to us along with associated work files.


--------------------------------
may your highlights be dotless
and your tonal scale smooth,


Jon Cone
jon@...
Piezography(tm) software and inks
http://www.piezography.com
--------------------------------

Re: From Piezography3000 - interest to workflow users

2002-10-12 by Jeff Randall

>"magerabamb" <MagerabamB@n... wrote:
> The following was published on the Piezography3000 users list.
> Because so  many users in this group use these workflows I though 
this should be of  interest to them. Make sure to click on link. The 
pictures are cool.
> 
> Brian


> Subject:  PiezoTone Original Black and Workflows
> 
> An important tech bulletin has been produced that has information
> which will affect users of workflow procedures. It is located at
> 
> http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/workflow/workflow-differences.html
> 
> This page illustrates the dramatic differences in how PiezographyBW
> plugin and the Woolfe workflow handle the printing of a 
monochromatic image.

SNIP

The results are interesting and informative, but comparing output of 
the PiezoBW driver to John Woolf's lumped/nonpartitioned workflow is 
a little too apples and oranges for my taste.  Jon now has an RGB 
partitioned workflow for the Epson driver and says he will post the 
new results.  I suspect the results will not be as marketing friendly.

Jeff Randall

Re: Hmm, More To The Story Than Cone Knows (?) [was] From Piezography3000 .....

2002-10-12 by Shilesh Jani

This post was very interesting to me because although I own 
Piezography 6.04, I prefer to use my own Epson driver workflow.  This 
is not because Piezography is incapable of good prints; rather it is 
because I developed my method before I purchased Piezography (when 
the price was reduced).  The post was deja-vous for me – only last 
week I sent an e-mail to Martin Wesley suggesting such an experiment, 
except I had proposed that each ink position be tested individually, 
by putting the MIS clear base in all other positions.  I had put the 
experiment aside because it served no immediate purpose to me, 
filling 5 color cartridges for a parametric experiment was not a 
relishing thought.  In any event, the post made me want to try it out 
for myself.  Here is what I did and what I found:

I loaded MIS clear base in the black ink position.  The color 
cartridge was Epson OEM dyes.  I printed 1-inch square pure black, 
and the standard black-to-white gradient, and 21-step wedge.  My 
printer is a 1280, and the images were all in grayscale gamma 2.2, 
using PhotoShop 5.5.  I printed with PCM unchecked, using three media 
different settings. All prints were made at 1440 dpi and high speed 
turned off.

It is very, very important that all pure black is purged.  Initially, 
I did see a lot of brown color in the 100% back squares.  These faded 
after a number of prints.  After the previous black ink was 
sufficiently purged, the 1-inch pure black squares printed white (!), 
with just barely discernible lay down of the clear base.  So, clearly 
the post by Cone is not the full story.  The Epson driver did not 
appear to use yellow ink in the 100% square; in all of the media 
settings I tried (PQIJ, MPHW, and IJBL Film).

The story becomes more interesting when the gradient & 21 steps were 
printed with these media settings. There is NO evidence of excessive 
yellow use in the shadows (75% plus) using the PQIJ and IJBL Film 
settings.  The gradients show a smooth cool tone, with some magenta 
hued crossovers. The IJBL Film setting showed some reddish tone in 
the 80-85% range.  The prints using the MPHW setting, however, are 
quite different; there is prominent brown-yellow coloration in the 
95% step.  The gradient shows the brown-yellow coloration extending 
beyond 95%.  I wonder what media setting was used by Cone in his 
experiments.  What printer did he use? And all other important 
details?

When I used Piezography in these experiments, I more-or-less 
duplicated what was posted by Cone.

So what does all this mean?  First, I doubt the fade seen in PT-K ink 
has much to do with the so-called "workflows".  Use of light gray ink 
(yellow position) in Eposn driver seems to depend on the media 
setting. But, what I learned was that I might experiment with 
different media settings in my "lumped" workflow.

I will mail the prints I made to Martin. If there is any interest I 
would be glad to e-mail him my scans to be posted.

Anyone want to buy my Piezography License? Going Cheap ;-)

Best wishes.

Shilesh


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Jeff Randall" 
<jrandall@c...> wrote:
> >"magerabamb" <MagerabamB@n... wrote:
> > The following was published on the Piezography3000 users list.
> > Because so  many users in this group use these workflows I though 
> this should be of  interest to them. Make sure to click on link. 
The 
> pictures are cool.
> > 
> > Brian
> 
> 
> > Subject:  PiezoTone Original Black and Workflows
> > 
> > An important tech bulletin has been produced that has information
> > which will affect users of workflow procedures. It is located at
> > 
> > http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/workflow/workflow-differences.html
> > 
> > This page illustrates the dramatic differences in how 
PiezographyBW
> > plugin and the Woolfe workflow handle the printing of a 
> monochromatic image.
> 
> SNIP
> 
> The results are interesting and informative, but comparing output 
of 
> the PiezoBW driver to John Woolf's lumped/nonpartitioned workflow 
is 
> a little too apples and oranges for my taste.  Jon now has an RGB 
> partitioned workflow for the Epson driver and says he will post the 
> new results.  I suspect the results will not be as marketing 
friendly.
> 
> Jeff Randall

Re: Hmm, More To The Story Than Cone Knows (?) [was] From Piezography3000 .....

2002-10-12 by Jeff Randall

Shelesh:

Thanks for sharing your results.

In regards to Jon Cone's experiment, he said he followed the Woolf 
workflow which turns on the color controls, sets gamma = 1.8, and 
sets mode = photo-realistic.  Try this and see if your results are 
the same.  

Apples to Apples. OK?

Jeff Randall

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Shilesh Jani" 
<shilesh.jani@s...> wrote:

SNIP
> So, clearly the post by Cone is not the full story.  

SNIP  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>I wonder what media setting was used by Cone in his 
> experiments.  What printer did he use? And all other important 
> details?

Re: Hmm, More To The Story Than Cone Knows (?) [was] From Piezography3000 .....

2002-10-12 by Shilesh Jani

Thank you Jeff,

Wolff's workflow is image in "grayscale". So is mine.  I too have 
printer set to "color controls", "gamma = 1.8". So I guess it is 
apples-to-apples.

Regards.

Shilesh

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Jeff Randall" 
<jrandall@c...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Shelesh:
> 
> Thanks for sharing your results.
> 
> In regards to Jon Cone's experiment, he said he followed the Woolf 
> workflow which turns on the color controls, sets gamma = 1.8, and 
> sets mode = photo-realistic.  Try this and see if your results are 
> the same.  
> 
> Apples to Apples. OK?
> 
> Jeff Randall
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Shilesh Jani" 
> <shilesh.jani@s...> wrote:
> 
> SNIP
> > So, clearly the post by Cone is not the full story.  
> 
> SNIP  
> >I wonder what media setting was used by Cone in his 
> > experiments.  What printer did he use? And all other important 
> > details?

Re: Hmm, More To The Story Than Cone Knows (?) [was] From Piezography3000 .....

2002-10-12 by Jeff Randall

Sorry Shilesh.  When you said "I printed with PCM unchecked, using 
three media different settings", I thought you were printing without 
the Epson driver color management/color controls turned on.

Thanks.

Jeff Randall

. --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Shilesh Jani" 
<shilesh.jani@s...> wrote:
> Thank you Jeff,
> 
> Wolff's workflow is image in "grayscale". So is mine.  I too have 
> printer set to "color controls", "gamma = 1.8". So I guess it is 
> apples-to-apples.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Shilesh
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Jeff Randall" 
> <jrandall@c...> wrote:
> > Shelesh:
> > 
> > Thanks for sharing your results.
> > 
> > In regards to Jon Cone's experiment, he said he followed the 
Woolf 
> > workflow which turns on the color controls, sets gamma = 1.8, and 
> > sets mode = photo-realistic.  Try this and see if your results 
are 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > the same.  
> > 
> > Apples to Apples. OK?
> > 
> > Jeff Randall
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Shilesh Jani" 
> > <shilesh.jani@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > SNIP
> > > So, clearly the post by Cone is not the full story.  
> > 
> > SNIP  
> > >I wonder what media setting was used by Cone in his 
> > > experiments.  What printer did he use? And all other important 
> > > details?

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