Digital BW, The Print

Does anyone know if there is a smooth, uncoated paper?  Perhaps one of the
Arches cold or hot press papers?

The reason I ask is that Somerset Velvet hits a dMax of over 1.9 with only
two coats.  However, I'm not a fan of the textured look.  It might be
interesting to see what a smooth uncoated paper would do.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Right, I just did a similar thing...but I (and Antonis) agree that the
Somerset Velvet texture doesn't look great coated.

You might try Arches Hot Press 90...I believe they have a white one now, so
you don't have to use the natural color...altough its possible that the
white may only be available in cold press (textured).  The 90 (185gm) should
go through your 3000 much like EAM.  There is also a 140 (300gm)...I used to
go through this by the case back in my drawing days.

The problem with all of these papers relative to coated inkjet papers,
however, is posterization, poor shadow detail and blotching.  That said,
I've had arches hot press/Epson 1270 photos hanging in my house for several
years now.  I'm sure if you put your mind to it you could make it work...It
would be a lot cheaper...that's for sure.  What you will really need for
this is a RIP though...because the ink demand will be really, really
different than the coated papers.

Robert

On 10/16/02 3:23 PM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is a smooth, uncoated paper?  Perhaps one of the
> Arches cold or hot press papers?
> 
> The reason I ask is that Somerset Velvet hits a dMax of over 1.9 with only
> two coats.  However, I'm not a fan of the textured look.  It might be
> interesting to see what a smooth uncoated paper would do.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
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You say you've had arches hot press/Epson 1270 photos hanging in your 
house for several years. I assume that these photos exhibit fewer of 
the negative characteristics you mentioned concerning uncoated 
papers. If this is the case, how were you able to avoid those 
problems? Also, seems to me that high-key (no deep blacks or heavy 
shadows with detail) photos might be less likely to exhibit the 
defects characteristic of photos made with uncoated papers. Any 
evidence that this is the case?

Chris

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Robert Morrison 
<rmorrison@p...> wrote:
> Right, I just did a similar thing...but I (and Antonis) agree that 
the
> Somerset Velvet texture doesn't look great coated.
> 
> You might try Arches Hot Press 90...I believe they have a white one 
now, so
> you don't have to use the natural color...altough its possible that 
the
> white may only be available in cold press (textured).  The 90 
(185gm) should
> go through your 3000 much like EAM.  There is also a 140 
(300gm)...I used to
> go through this by the case back in my drawing days.
> 
> The problem with all of these papers relative to coated inkjet 
papers,
> however, is posterization, poor shadow detail and blotching.  That 
said,
> I've had arches hot press/Epson 1270 photos hanging in my house for 
several
> years now.  I'm sure if you put your mind to it you could make it 
work...It
> would be a lot cheaper...that's for sure.  What you will really 
need for
> this is a RIP though...because the ink demand will be really, really
> different than the coated papers.
> 
> Robert
> 
> On 10/16/02 3:23 PM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone know if there is a smooth, uncoated paper?  Perhaps 
one of the
> > Arches cold or hot press papers?
> > 
> > The reason I ask is that Somerset Velvet hits a dMax of over 1.9 
with only
> > two coats.  However, I'm not a fan of the textured look.  It 
might be
> > interesting to see what a smooth uncoated paper would do.
> > 
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other
> > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
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messages to keep
> > them short.
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header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
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> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
> > resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> >

Paul;

'DOTWORKS' makes a smooth acid-free 100% cotton paper that has the 
same surface as Photorag. It's called Nature Jet uncoated, 15ml (I 
think they make a heavier version as well) and is quite reasonably 
priced: 

  http://www.dotinkjet.com 

Regards, 

Steve Karafyllakis

http://www. stevekphoto.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Does anyone know if there is a smooth, uncoated paper?  Perhaps 
one of the
> Arches cold or hot press papers?
> 
> The reason I ask is that Somerset Velvet hits a dMax of over 1.9 
with only
> two coats.  However, I'm not a fan of the textured look.  It might 
be

> interesting to see what a smooth uncoated paper would do.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Hi,

Does Epson Smooth Fine Art Paper qualify as a smooth uncoated paper?  Epson's pdf 
on the paper doesn't say anything about coatings, but apparently it is a 100% 
cotton-rag, acid-free paper; and my small paper sample feels smooth.  Does anyone 
know how ESFA performs in terms of the "posterization, poor shadow detail and 
blotching" mentioned below?   Thanks!

Tom Andrews
http://www.wildlandart.com

> Somerset Velvet texture doesn't look great coated.
> 
> You might try Arches Hot Press 90...I believe they have a white one now, so
> you don't have to use the natural color...altough its possible that the
> white may only be available in cold press (textured).  The 90 (185gm) should
> go through your 3000 much like EAM.  There is also a 140 (300gm)...I used to
> go through this by the case back in my drawing days.
> 
> The problem with all of these papers relative to coated inkjet papers,
> however, is posterization, poor shadow detail and blotching.  That said,
> I've had arches hot press/Epson 1270 photos hanging in my house for several
> years now.  I'm sure if you put your mind to it you could make it work...It
> would be a lot cheaper...that's for sure.  What you will really need for
> this is a RIP though...because the ink demand will be really, really
> different than the coated papers.
> 
> Robert
> 
> On 10/16/02 3:23 PM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone know if there is a smooth, uncoated paper?  Perhaps one of the
> > Arches cold or hot press papers?
> > 
> > The reason I ask is that Somerset Velvet hits a dMax of over 1.9 with only
> > two coats.  However, I'm not a fan of the textured look.  It might be
> > interesting to see what a smooth uncoated paper would do.
> > 
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> >

>Paul;
>
>'DOTWORKS' makes a smooth acid-free 100% cotton paper that has the
>same surface as Photorag. It's called Nature Jet uncoated, 15ml (I
>think they make a heavier version as well) and is quite reasonably
>priced:
>
>   http://www.dotinkjet.com




Dotworks Nature Jet is a very nice paper, however, it is not photo 
rag.  I used it for a while and it works great with the standard 6 
color epson inks, but when using MIS archival color pigment inks, 
slight bronzing occurred and I had to use  a spray coating to remove 
it.
-- 

bill agee studio
capistrano beach, ca / laguna beach, ca

http://www.redsilver.com

Hi Andre, 

I still have a bunch of the large paper. Quality is very variable
according to image.  Very smooth tones show granularity, but there's
been NO fading or color changes at all.  I have a few prints made on
that paper that have outstanding blacks, about as good as the EAM paper. 
Sharpness is not quite as good as on coated papers, but it is fine for
most subjects.
What usually doesn't work well is smooth gray skies. They tend to be
grainy, but again, for some reason, not ALways. 

The paper is definitely worth experimenting with because of its quality
and low price.
Even though it is called "Bright" white, it isn't really white. It is
creamy colored.

Jerry

> Jerry,
> Remember Arches Bright Whites 140lb ? Do you still have prints made
> on this watercolor paper ? If so, how are they holding up in term of
> inkfastness ?
> Andre
>

How's the blacks on Dotwork's papers?  Someone mentioned they thought they
were mitsubishi papers, but wasn't sure.

Jerry



Bill Agee wrote:

> 
> >Paul;
> >
> >'DOTWORKS' makes a smooth acid-free 100% cotton paper that has the
> >same surface as Photorag. It's called Nature Jet uncoated, 15ml (I
> >think they make a heavier version as well) and is quite reasonably
> >priced:
> >
> >   http://www.dotinkjet.com
> 
> Dotworks Nature Jet is a very nice paper, however, it is not photo
> rag.  I used it for a while and it works great with the standard 6
> color epson inks, but when using MIS archival color pigment inks,
> slight bronzing occurred and I had to use  a spray coating to remove
> it.
> --
> 
> bill agee studio
> capistrano beach, ca / laguna beach, ca
> 
> http://www.redsilver.com
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
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> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
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For smooth papers to coat...try two from Hawk Mountain:

http://www.hawkmtneditions.com/page2.html

Merlin is a coated paper and Red Tail is their uncoated one.  I know the
Merlin coats nicely.  The blacks are poor without coating, but the final
effect is really nice coated.  Osprey, another hawk mountain paper, has a
different coating on it and does not coat well...Merlin's the one need for a
coated paper.

Robert

On 10/17/02 10:33 AM, "Bill Agee" <billagee@...> wrote:

>> Paul;
>> 
>> 'DOTWORKS' makes a smooth acid-free 100% cotton paper that has the
>> same surface as Photorag. It's called Nature Jet uncoated, 15ml (I
>> think they make a heavier version as well) and is quite reasonably
>> priced:
>> 
>>   http://www.dotinkjet.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dotworks Nature Jet is a very nice paper, however, it is not photo
> rag.  I used it for a while and it works great with the standard 6
> color epson inks, but when using MIS archival color pigment inks,
> slight bronzing occurred and I had to use  a spray coating to remove
> it.

Uncoated papers are tricky to print on, especially with the Epson printers.

I have finally found some success at it with my Epson 9000 and the OEM 
Photo dye set.

I have been using all the papers I had left from my days of owning an 
Iris printer.
My fave was Whatman's HotPress 140 lb.
Also Farbriano Uno works very well, these are heavy smooth and hard 
surfaced, 100% rag papers.

They all do very well in my South Window Torture tests.

J.Z.

Hi,

I didn't get a reply previously, but can't imagine that no one has experience with 
ESFA, so I'll try again.  
 
Does Epson Smooth Fine Art Paper qualify as a smooth uncoated paper?  Epson's pdf 
on the paper doesn't say anything about coatings, but apparently it is a 100% 
cotton-rag, acid-free paper; and my small paper sample feels smooth.  Does anyone 
know how ESFA performs in terms of posterization, poor shadow detail and 
blotching mentioned previously?   Or is ESFA just not in the same league as the 
Arches and other fineart papers being discussed.  Many thanks!
 
Tom Andrews
http://www.wildlandart.com

TRY IT and tell us     hello!

pleistocenehome wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I didn't get a reply previously, but can't imagine that no one has 
> experience with
> ESFA, so I'll try again. 
>
>

Tom

It's coated. It's VERY similar to Museo. Both made by Crane.

Todd

> 
> Hi,
> 
> I didn't get a reply previously, but can't imagine that no one has experience
> with 
> ESFA, so I'll try again.
> 
> Does Epson Smooth Fine Art Paper qualify as a smooth uncoated paper?  Epson's
> pdf 
> on the paper doesn't say anything about coatings, but apparently it is a 100%
> cotton-rag, acid-free paper; and my small paper sample feels smooth.  Does
> anyone 
> know how ESFA performs in terms of posterization, poor shadow detail and
> blotching mentioned previously?   Or is ESFA just not in the same league as
> the 
> Arches and other fineart papers being discussed.  Many thanks!
> 
> Tom Andrews
> http://www.wildlandart.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

I thought it was Museo T. But never tried it, I do use Museo, does Epson
fine art have a different coating?

Carolyn

> Tom
> 
> It's coated. It's VERY similar to Museo. Both made by Crane.
> 
> Todd
> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I didn't get a reply previously, but can't imagine that no one has experience
>> with 
>> ESFA, so I'll try again.
>> 
>> Does Epson Smooth Fine Art Paper qualify as a smooth uncoated paper?  Epson's

For a while I thought it was Museo, just branded for Epson and coming in
different weights than Museo, but I think word came from Robert Rex that the
coating too was somehow different. But I don't think they're visibly
different, IOW, similar dmax and subtle mottling with some inks. I think
Dave King, or some of the heavies on the 9000 list would remember better
than I.

Todd

> I thought it was Museo T. But never tried it, I do use Museo, does Epson
> fine art have a different coating?
> 
> Carolyn
> 
> 
>> Tom
>> 
>> It's coated. It's VERY similar to Museo. Both made by Crane.
>> 
>> Todd
>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I didn't get a reply previously, but can't imagine that no one has
>>> experience
>>> with 
>>> ESFA, so I'll try again.
>>> 
>>> Does Epson Smooth Fine Art Paper qualify as a smooth uncoated paper?
>>> Epson's

Here, I found what I was thinking of. This from Robert Rex of Crane:

The base sheets are made from the same raw material.  The basis weights and
sizes are different, but also the surface finish is slightly different
(although this is due to the basis weight difference; eg, a heavier sheet
will lie harder on the felt of the paper machine, thereby creating a more
pronounced felt mark or surface finish).

The coatings do have slight variations between ESFA and Museo, but the same
profile can indeed be used interchangeably (as reported by some of our
customers).

Both coatings were specifically engineered for pigment-based inks.  For best
archival results, we would suggest Gen4 (I am testing gen5 now), MIS
archival color and quadtone, Indelible; oh, and of course Epson Archival
Inks (that should've been first).  I think these inksets would look equally
good on ESFA and Museo.

Naturally, ESFA/Museo will look awesome with Epsons Photo Dye ink
(1270/1280), but light stability will be greatly reduced.  Epson rates it at
5 years, but I think with proper storage and low light exhibitions will
probably be in the 10 year range (this is my opinion, not scientifically
proven).

Todd

> I thought it was Museo T. But never tried it, I do use Museo, does Epson
> fine art have a different coating?
> 
> Carolyn
> 
> 
>> Tom
>> 
>> It's coated. It's VERY similar to Museo. Both made by Crane.
>> 
>> Todd
>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I didn't get a reply previously, but can't imagine that no one has
>>> experience
>>> with 
>>> ESFA, so I'll try again.
>>> 
>>> Does Epson Smooth Fine Art Paper qualify as a smooth uncoated paper?
>>> Epson's
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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>

Thanks for finding that Todd... so would you use the museo profile for the
ESFA or the ESFA profile for the museo <g>

Carolyn

> 
> Here, I found what I was thinking of. This from Robert Rex of Crane:
> 
> The base sheets are made from the same raw material.  The basis weights and
> sizes are different, but also the surface finish is slightly different
> (although this is due to the basis weight difference; eg, a heavier sheet
> will lie harder on the felt of the paper machine, thereby creating a more
> pronounced felt mark or surface finish).

I just replaced the head in my Epson 1200 and the maintenance manual
talks about a program for adjusting the head voltage and some
specialized alignments. It's called something like SP751200.EXE. Does
anyone know where I can find this thing?

Thanks,

gus

On 10/17/02 6:48 PM, "pleistocenehome" <tandrews@...> wrote:

> Does Epson Smooth Fine Art Paper qualify as a smooth uncoated paper?

No, its very similar to Museo...same coating with a very slightly smoother
texture...much smoother than the textured version...but not smooth.

Robert

Jerry wrote:

>...
>What usually doesn't work well is smooth gray skies. They tend to be
>grainy, ...

I just printed some Stonehenge (I think), and it has too much grain in the
smooth tones below about 30% for me to live with.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Gus,

As far as I know, this program is only available to the Epson service
centers.  Also, the alignment it self is not that straight forward, at least
for the 3000.  The service manual is left open to some interpretation.

Regards,

Austin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gus J Grubba [mailto:gus@...]
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 12:49 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Epson head alignment program for 750/1200
>
>
> I just replaced the head in my Epson 1200 and the maintenance manual
> talks about a program for adjusting the head voltage and some
> specialized alignments. It's called something like SP751200.EXE. Does
> anyone know where I can find this thing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> gus