Digital BW, The Print

Hello:

I am new to the group but not new to digital photography or B&W 
imaging.  I am considering purchasing a new lower end printer, either 
the Epson 1270/1280 or the Canon S9000.  I would appreciate any 
feedback from the group.  I will be doing both color and b&w.  The 
Canon is much faster (speed is important) and the inks are cheaper 
but the issues surrounding fading have not been made clear yet.  Does 
anyone have any advice or personal experience with either? Thanks in 
advance.

Duncan Staples
St. Louis, MO

Keith,
Sounds like you are pleased with the Canon overall. Perhaps you can help.
Although I love my Canon 35mm equipment, I wrote them off for any/all
computer equipment based on an unpleasant experience with a C635
multifunction office printer/fax/scanner I bought 3 years ago when both
Canon and I were first getting into this sort of thing.

Long story short, the Canon software was and is lousy on my Mac (now running
OS 9.1). Computer hangs at the start and finish of every print job. Random
crashes when printing from all sorts of software. Anemic tech support. Fast
yes, but just okay text print quality (which is what it was designed
for--didn't even bother with "photo mode" ;-).

Contrast this with the Epson Photo EX I purchased more than a year earlier.
No hangs. No crashes. Nicer interface and much more thorough support, both
on the web and via email/phone. Slower, but found that I relied on this
"photo printer" anytime my text had to look good!

Guess my question is, has Canon finally gotten their you-know-what together?
I firmly believe they lead the pack in 35mm innovation and WANT to believe
they will someday transfer this to printers as well. But when my Epson
experience has been great from the get-go, it'd be hard to convince me to
switch to a company that's playing catch-up.

As someone who "goes both ways" <G>, any thoughts?

Doug

> 
> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 22:10:26 -0500
> From: "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@...>
> Subject: Re: Epson 1270/1280 vs. Canon S9000
> 
> 
> 
> Duncan Staples wrote:
> 
>> Any info on best paper to use and information on how much fading to
>> expect?
>> 
>> 
>> 
> Since I own and use a 1270, a 1280, AND an S9000, I'll bite..
> 
> Lets start with this....
> 
> The S9000 is about 3 times the speed of the 1280 (especially obvious on
> borderless 13x19 images)...
> 
> The S9000, the 1270, and 1280 AFAIK use the same colorants in their
> inks... (The carriers are VERY different though, with the Canons using a
> significantly lower viscosity ink.. More on that below)
> 
> Therefore, fading issues should be the same... Watch out for fugitive
> cyan with either the EPSON or Canon OEM inks...
> 
> In the EPSONs, you can use pigment based ink offerings from  MIS and
> MediaStreet.  
> 
> With the Canons, the lower viscosity and small printhead nozzles make it
> not possible with current carriers and pigments.  The carrier just won't
> keep the pigments in a stable suspension.. (pigments don't go into
> solution, they are suspended -- they can't dissolve)
> 
> However,  BOTH the Canons AND the EPSONs can use Lyson dye-based inksets
> with a  life multiple times that of the OEM inks...
> If one chooses the Fotonics set one gets a larger gamut, with the
> Lysonics set one gets even longer life but a reduced gamut in the reds..
> 
> Media issues... Well, that depends upon the inkset one uses.,.. Using
> OEM inks and glossy or luster media, I wouldn't sell the images..
> 
> With Lyson inks, you can use glossy or luster media safely.  But, they
> tend to suffer from metamerism on some non-Lyson matte media.
> 
> With the pigment inksets,  you will have some problems with using glossy
> or luster media..  Of course there is a new photo black available from
> MIS that should do away with that problem...
> 
> There are CIS/CFS systems for the 1270/1280.. It's still a few more
> weeks until  systems for the S9000  (that I would consider using) will
> be available.
> 
> OTOH, you can replace the printhead on an S9000 yourself..  I've done it
> under 3 minutes.. On EPSONs you can't even consider that yourself..
> 
> Here's what I do...
> 
> 1270:  MIS VM &  MIS VM Sepia (I may add Gen 5 or the new UltraChrome
> clones)
> 1280:  Lyson - Lysonics & Small Gamut
> S9000:  Fotonics
> 
> 
> Keith

I am printing on 309gsm Photo Rag using my Epson C80. Every sheet slips
about a quarter inch which throws off image placement and wastes expensive
paper. Regular office paper goes through fine, even 189gsm photo rag seems
to be problem free.

I don't know how to increase the friction between the paper and the feeder
belt, any ideas?

Thanks,
Allyen

the best way is to adjust the lever on the left side for the paper 
thickness. I always have it set to the thicker paper stock so that 
the paper feed doesn't suffer from the problems of slippage. Hope 
this helps!

Alfie


> I am printing on 309gsm Photo Rag using my Epson C80. Every sheet 
slips
> about a quarter inch which throws off image placement and wastes 
expensive
> paper. Regular office paper goes through fine, even 189gsm photo 
rag seems
> to be problem free.
> 
> I don't know how to increase the friction between the paper and the 
feeder

> belt, any ideas?
> 
> Thanks,
> Allyen

Allyen,

You just need to give those thicker papers a little
shove.  Press the paper feed button prior to printing,
grab both sides of the paper and just give a little
push which helps the paper feed mechanism grab hold
instead of slipping.  Boy, that C80 is loud when it
loads, huh?

Thom


--- Allyen Wilson <awilson@...> wrote:

> I am printing on 309gsm Photo Rag using my Epson
> C80. Every sheet slips
> about a quarter inch which throws off image
> placement and wastes expensive
> paper. Regular office paper goes through fine, even
> 189gsm photo rag seems
> to be problem free.
> 
> I don't know how to increase the friction between
> the paper and the feeder
> belt, any ideas?
> 
> Thanks,
> Allyen