Digital BW, The Print

I kinda had a meltdown with this sprayer today. I just simply don't 
want to have to crank this thing up each and every time I make a 
print. Yes, the blacks rock. Yes, the contrast is punchy.

But with the sprayer, you MUST keep the sprayhead level with 
the ground, ie, upright vertically. If you tilt it, it sputters. But then, if 
you mess up in the least amount with the amount of coating that 
hits the print, and "overspray" it, the coating will potentially will 
begin to run down the print, which *really* looks bad. But you've 
got to suspend the print upright vertically in order for the spray to 
hit the print at the proper angle. Thus the problem.

And this is not to mention the crap in the air, and the cleanup 
factor after each session, etc.

There is change in the air. There's just GOT to be a better way.

MT, http://www.marktucker.com

Mark;

I once spray painted the rear gate and both bumper covers of my 
minivan with a $20.00 hobbyist's airbrush I bought from TOYS-R-US.
It's not angle sensitive until the (admittedly very small) reservoir 
bottle runs low, and puts out a really fine spray! 

Steve K (with yet another whacko idea!)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Tucker 
<mark@m...>" <mark@m...> wrote:
> I kinda had a meltdown with this sprayer today. I just simply 
don't 
> want to have to crank this thing up each and every time I make a 
> print. Yes, the blacks rock. Yes, the contrast is punchy.
> 
> But with the sprayer, you MUST keep the sprayhead level with 
> the ground, ie, upright vertically. If you tilt it, it sputters. 
But then, if 
> you mess up in the least amount with the amount of coating that 
> hits the print, and "overspray" it, the coating will potentially 
will 
> begin to run down the print, which *really* looks bad. But you've 
> got to suspend the print upright vertically in order for the spray 
to 

> hit the print at the proper angle. Thus the problem.
> 
> And this is not to mention the crap in the air, and the cleanup 
> factor after each session, etc.
> 
> There is change in the air. There's just GOT to be a better way.
> 
> MT, http://www.marktucker.com

Its called a Mayer rod, darling. :-) Get a #22 with a half inch diameter rod
and a big piece of thick glass. Time to get someone to fabricate you a
handle for a big four foot rod...or else find a friend with 5 foot long
arms!  I saw one of my friends today you has also gone through the "spraying
phase"...built his own spray booth etc...he came to the same
conclusion...there must be a better way.  Honestly, I think a HVLP sprayer
might be great if you were doing a large show of big prints...one spray
session in a clean, tented environment...with a respirator...but it will be
much harder to do reproducibly than using a Mayer rod...that's what they are
made for...very uniform coating time after time.  But seriously, I think a
rod works great for up to 22 x 28 prints...we all just need the right gunk
to coat with...which I still working on...hopefully more details soon.

:-)

Robert

On 12/10/02 3:16 PM, "Mark Tucker <mark@...>"
<mark@...> wrote:

> I kinda had a meltdown with this sprayer today. I just simply don't
> want to have to crank this thing up each and every time I make a
> print. Yes, the blacks rock. Yes, the contrast is punchy.
> 
> But with the sprayer, you MUST keep the sprayhead level with
> the ground, ie, upright vertically. If you tilt it, it sputters. But then, if
> you mess up in the least amount with the amount of coating that
> hits the print, and "overspray" it, the coating will potentially will
> begin to run down the print, which *really* looks bad. But you've
> got to suspend the print upright vertically in order for the spray to
> hit the print at the proper angle. Thus the problem.
> 
> And this is not to mention the crap in the air, and the cleanup
> factor after each session, etc.
> 
> There is change in the air. There's just GOT to be a better way.
> 
> MT, http://www.marktucker.com
> 
> 
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>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Robert 
>Morrison <rmorrison@p...> wrote:
>but it will be
> much harder to do reproducibly than using a Mayer rod...that's 
what they are
> made for...very uniform coating time after time.

------

The 505gsm Epson Velvet helps, in that the curl/buckle factor is 
reduced, due to the weight.

But still, the sprayer is VERY hard to get it completely consistent. 
And hard to get the paper saturated, without it starting to run, 
since it's hanging vertically.

My fantasy sprayhead is a 90 degree rightangle elbow device, so 
that the print could be left lying on its back, but then the sprayer 
could be held upright and normal. That way, you could load up 
the print, with the print taped down, and eliminate the "run factor".

Personally, for large prints, I think the Mayer Rod is a complete 
waste of time. No way. The error factor is much higher there than 
with spraying. I have gotten much better with spraying, but the 
question is: do I want to be a sprayer? (Quick answer: no way in 
hell).

I may next just experiment with framing the Epson Velvet under 
glass, throw it on the wall, and see how it feels. No coating at all. 
Back to being a photographer...

-MT, http://www.marktucker.com/

Robert,
> Its called a Mayer rod, darling. :-) Get a #22 with a half inch 
diameter rod

So where can one purchase a mayer rod? Diversified isn't selling to 
rank and file consumers. Paul Gardner Company sells an 8 inch wood 
for $73 + shipping! OUCH! For more information hyperlink to 

http://www.gardco.com/rods.html

This page is illustrated and may be of interest to those of you that 
haven't been there.

I've tested coating Hydrocote with a glass rod but this leaves an 
uneven coat. The rod is the same kind used to coat alternative 
process dispersals such as platinum/palladium prints. The Hydrocote 
enhaces these prints also.

Sure wish we could get this to work, it looks great and I yearn for 
those dense blacks and snappy prints.

Thanks,

Don Bryant

On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, at 10:52  AM, donbga  
<dsbryant@...> wrote:

> So where can one purchase a mayer rod? Diversified isn't selling to
> rank and file consumers. Paul Gardner Company sells an 8 inch wood
> for $73 + shipping! OUCH! For more information hyperlink to
>
I tried the screen door spring subsitute for the mayer rod that Stanley  
described and it worked quite well.  I just purchased 3 additional  
springs (stainless steel continuous length extension springs) form  
McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/) to experiment with.  Ordered  
them on Sunday and received them via UPS yesterday - very good service.  
  Spring details:
   Qty   |    Part Number/Description        |   Price       | Shipping  
Info
+-------+-----------------------------------+--------------- 
+--------------+

     1 EA    9665K29 - Type 302 SS Continuous  $8.49 EA                 
Monday
             Lgth Extension Spring 20" Lg,
             1/2" OD, .054" Wire

     1 EA    9665K25 - Type 302 SS Continuous  $6.67 EA                 
Monday
             Lgth Extension Spring 20" Lg,
             3/8" OD, .041" Wire

     1 EA    9665K24 - Type 302 SS Continuous  $6.45 EA                 
Monday
             Lgth Extension Spring 20" Lg,
             3/8" OD, .032" Wire

These springs have more flex than the heavy screen door spring I first  
used so they need to be used on a dowel to keep them from twisting.   
I've only tried the .041" spring so far and it worked just fine with  
Liquitex gloss acrylic.  I'm still waiting for delivery of some  
Hydrocote.  I had tried the AquaZar water based poly, but the coating  
cracked after drying.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"donbga <dsbryant@m...>" <dsbryant@m...> wrote:
> 
> So where can one purchase a mayer rod? Diversified isn't 
selling to 
> rank and file consumers. 
---

http://www.industrytech.net/coating_rods.htm

On 12/11/02 6:36 AM, "Mark Tucker <mark@...>"
<mark@...> wrote:

> Personally, for large prints, I think the Mayer Rod is a complete
> waste of time. No way. The error factor is much higher there than
> with spraying. I have gotten much better with spraying, but the
> question is: do I want to be a sprayer? (Quick answer: no way in
> hell).

What rod do you have?  Its critical that you have the right one for the
solution that you are using, otherwise it will be difficult to impossible to
get good results. Rod coating is the way that most of the ink jet papers
that we use are actually made...either a rod or an air knife.  Admittedly
these are automated processes...but it would certainly possible to have a
simple set up made with some rollers, a rod holder and a liquid applicator.
My guess is that it would less expensive than a commercial laminator machine
where you can do prints that are as large as you want to laminate.  You
would simple pull the paper through the rollers by hand.  This is very close
to what is done commercially with rod coating.  No one sprays in the
commercial paper coating market.

Robert

On 12/11/02 7:52 AM, "donbga <dsbryant@...>"
<dsbryant@...> wrote:

> Robert,
>> Its called a Mayer rod, darling. :-) Get a #22 with a half inch
> diameter rod
> 
> So where can one purchase a mayer rod? Diversified isn't selling to
> rank and file consumers. Paul Gardner Company sells an 8 inch wood
> for $73 + shipping! OUCH! For more information hyperlink to
> 
> http://www.gardco.com/rods.html
> 
> This page is illustrated and may be of interest to those of you that
> haven't been there.

My understanding is that MIS associates is considering carrying them for our
market.

> I've tested coating Hydrocote with a glass rod but this leaves an
> uneven coat. The rod is the same kind used to coat alternative
> process dispersals such as platinum/palladium prints. The Hydrocote
> enhaces these prints also.

Glass rod won't work.
 
Robert

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Robert 
Morrison <rmorrison@p...> wrote:
 Its critical that you have the right one for the
> solution that you are using, otherwise it will be difficult to 
impossible to
> get good results. 

---

You are probably right. i have a 15, not a 30. i should order the 
right one before i throw in the towel.

Here's a nice page of explanations and animated gifs of the 
various processes. mayer Bar is shown at the bottom, along with 
Air Knife.

http://www.tciinc.com/coating.html

> But still, the sprayer is VERY hard to get it completely consistent. 
> And hard to get the paper saturated, without it starting to run, 
> since it's hanging vertically.
> -MT, http://www.marktucker.com/

Mark,

Don't use too much of the "Fish-eye" juice as the coating will run real easily. In 
my toy painting job I use 10% of what the instructions mention. This is just from 
experience.

When spraying try tilting the print at about 45 degrees for less running. Try 
spraying a light first coat and a second heavier coat. You should be able to tilt the 
gun at 45 degrees with no spitting - from the gun, not from you - just make sure 
you have enough coating in the gun so when tilted it does not suck up air.

Best,

John V.

> But with the sprayer, you MUST keep the sprayhead level with
> the ground, ie, upright vertically. If you tilt it, it sputters. But then, if
> you mess up in the least amount with the amount of coating that
> hits the print, and "overspray" it, the coating will potentially will
> begin to run down the print, which *really* looks bad. But you've
> got to suspend the print upright vertically in order for the spray to
> hit the print at the proper angle. Thus the problem.

I used to watch a friend of mine paint very large abstracts on canvas with a
brush. The canvas was always mounted in a vertical position.

So to help prevent his arm from getting tired and wobbly, he would attach a
cord from his forearm (that held the paint brush) up through a eyelet in the
ceiling and back down to his other hand.

That way his other hand (the one without the brush) would act as a guide (to
raise and lower via the cord) and add support at the same time.

Maybe this could be of some help?

Regards,

Roderick

www.roderickchen.com

just a quick question, what are y'all coating the paper with and why?

Rich

Huge increase in dmax (0.5 to 0.6 units) and to protect the print...once
coated you can literally wipe them off with a sponge.  This keeps prints
from flaking and keeps the paper from getting dirty from handling.  Its
possible that there may also be an improvement in lightfastness...but that's
an open question at this point.  Some early window testing that I did was
showing 50-100% improvements.

Robert

On 12/12/02 7:42 AM, "Richard Lee" <rich@...> wrote:

> just a quick question, what are y'all coating the paper with and why?
> 
> Rich 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
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> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
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> 
> 
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> 
>