Digital BW, The Print

Hello All,

I have just posted on my web site a series of three articles on black
and white digital printing.  They present a generalized overview of
the current state of things, and are targeted at someone just getting
started, or thinking about it.  

If I had had this info in the beginning it would have saved me lots of
time and hassle, so I wanted to put something together that would help
others get started more easily.  In the articles I recommend this
forum as the place to keep informed on what's happening in the field.
 A big thanks to everyone here for all the great input that helps make
this forum so good.

Here is the link to my site.  Go to the Photo side and you'll see a
link to the articles:   http://www.cjcom.net   


Best Regards,
Clayton

Clayton, after reading all three articles, I have to commend you. Well
done. Your "Black Only" article is right on point. My experiences
mirror yours. I'm new at this but found printing black only to really
be the quick easy way to good prints. (using the 1280 as well). I'm
beginning to learn to use MIS VM hextones, but comparing those to the
black only is not leading me to believe one if better than the other.
They have minor variances, but each are tools that work best in
certain circumstances. 

Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones
<cj@c...>" <cj@c...> wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> I have just posted on my web site a series of three articles on black
> and white digital printing.  They present a generalized overview of
> the current state of things, and are targeted at someone just getting
> started, or thinking about it.  
> 
> If I had had this info in the beginning it would have saved me lots of
> time and hassle, so I wanted to put something together that would help
> others get started more easily.  In the articles I recommend this
> forum as the place to keep informed on what's happening in the field.
>  A big thanks to everyone here for all the great input that helps make
> this forum so good.
> 
> Here is the link to my site.  Go to the Photo side and you'll see a
> link to the articles:   http://www.cjcom.net   
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> Clayton

Hello Bob,

Thanks for your kind remarks.

>...comparing those to the black only is not leading me to 
>believe one is better than the other.

Yes, it can definitely stand on its own without excuses.


Regards, - cj

I followed your recipe for using black only on my 2100, but the 
results were really, really horrible. Clipped highlights, huge dots, 
banding... Basically everything you don't want to see in a print. 

After fiddling around for a while I got the bright idea of switching 
off all adjustments in the gray balancer and suddenly the prints 
looked perfect!

Also, the 2880dpi setting definitely makes a difference in this 
printing mode - even at some viewing distance I can still tell the 
2880 print by the smoother textures and more accurate details.

Whether or not I like the dots remains to be seen, I'll have to do 
some more testing, but it sure was nice to finally see a perfectly 
neutral print from my printer. Thanks!

Hello Daniel,

Thanks for your report, glad you found some success with it.  Couple
of questions:

> I followed your recipe for using black only on my 2100

I'm not familiar with the 2100, can you tell me something about it?


>After fiddling around for a while I got the bright idea of
>switching off all adjustments in the gray balancer and 
>suddenly the prints looked perfect!

What is the gray balancer?  I can't find anything called by this
name...


>Also, the 2880dpi setting definitely makes a difference 
>in this printing mode - even at some viewing distance I 
>can still tell the 2880 print by the smoother textures 
>and more accurate details.

I'd love to try 2880dpi but I'll have to be satisfied with my 870 for
now. My fantasy is to leapfrog the 1280 and go to the 2200, but I'm
unsure about the inks, I've gotten used to the good VM black.  I'm
following the MIS/2200 ink story with real interest.  I think I'll
just stick with the 870 until all this gets sorted out.
 

>Whether or not I like the dots remains to be seen, 

I don't really like seeing the dots, but I sure do like the overall
look and feel of the prints.  I'm willing to put up with them in
exchange for all the benefits.

>it sure was nice to finally see a perfectly 
>neutral print from my printer. Thanks!

"finally"?  Does that mean you were having trouble before?  I'd like
to hear more about what you've been using...  Also, do you see a
difference in the luminance compared to your other method?  That's one
of my favorite things about it.

Regards, - cj

> I followed your recipe for using black only on my 2100
> I'm not familiar with the 2100, can you tell me something about it?

It's the european version of the 2200, same thing, different name. 
(I'm from Norway).

> >After fiddling around for a while I got the bright idea of
> >switching off all adjustments in the gray balancer and 
> >suddenly the prints looked perfect!
> What is the gray balancer?  I can't find anything called by this
> name...

The gray balancer is a tool that Epson includes with the 2100 for 
making adjustments to create neutral grays. You basically print 
several swatches of grays in various tonalities and use the a printed 
reference chart to select the most neutral grays. After selections 
you can save an adjustment file which will then be applied to all 
your prints.

I find the tool moderately useful as I can at least eliminate major 
color shifts like the strong magenta cast I get when printing 
directly from the driver without adjustments. However, making a 
prefectly neutral gray is still really difficult, and it requiree a 
lot of patience and lots of prints to get good results. I find I can 
get pretty close but there's always some small tonal area which 
shifts in one direction or the other, and the metamerism is always 
there anyway, so even if a print looks good in one place, changing 
lights might ruin everything.

As far as I can tell this tool is the only difference between the 
2100 and the 2200 as for some reason Epson US chose not to include it 
with the 2200. 

> >it sure was nice to finally see a perfectly 
> >neutral print from my printer. Thanks!
> "finally"?  Does that mean you were having trouble before?  I'd like
> to hear more about what you've been using...  Also, do you see a
> difference in the luminance compared to your other method?  That's 
one
> of my favorite things about it.

I'm comparing a couple of prints now, and the BO print is very warm 
compared to the cool gray I got using one of my Gray Balancer 
adjustment files. I tend to like cool grays, so I don't think I like 
the look of the BO print after all, but at least it has the same 
tonality across the whole range of grays. There is no difference in 
luminance. Also, it seems like the BO setting only works with the 
Matte Black cartridge. With Photo Black the driver insists on using 
all colors regardless of what I specify. This makes it less useful to 
me since I usually prefer Photo Black with Premium Semigloss paper.

The more I experiment with these things the more Imageprint seems 
like an attractive solution, but I'm a little bit reluctant about the 
price.

Daniel:
I'm not familiar with the 2100/2200 but my 1280 has a selection in the
print menu for black, color or custom. When you select "black" it
prints using the black ink only so you get the tone of just the black
ink and nothing else. 
Does a 2100 have this choice? If so, after selecting to just use the
black ink, so you still have a magenta cast?
Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "danielstaver
<daniel@p...>" <daniel@p...> wrote:
<snip>

> I find the tool moderately useful as I can at least eliminate major 
> color shifts like the strong magenta cast I get when printing 
> directly from the driver without adjustments. However, making a 
> prefectly neutral gray is still really difficult, and it requiree a 
> lot of patience and lots of prints to get good results.<snip>

Daniel,

> It's the european version of the 2200, same thing, different name. 
> The gray balancer is a tool that Epson includes with the 2100 

Ok, got it, thanks.


> I tend to like cool grays, so I don't think I like 
> the look of the BO print after all, 

Yes, definitely one of the limitations.  You're at the mercy of the
ink for its color.  Fortunately I really like the color I'm getting
with the MIS VM/FS ink.  It's similar to what I had with my favorite
Ilford MGFB III and Quicksilver developer.


> Also, it seems like the BO setting only works with the  
> Matte Black cartridge. With Photo Black the driver insists on using 
> all colors regardless of what I specify. This makes it less useful
to 
> me since I usually prefer Photo Black with Premium Semigloss paper.

Well, _that's_ interesting.  I'll have to find out more about this
printer.

 
> The more I experiment with these things the more Imageprint seems 
> like an attractive solution, but I'm a little bit reluctant about
the 
> price.

Understood.  Well, good luck with it.  We're all on our own individual
journeys through this forest.  Thanks very much for the extra info. 
It sheds some more light on things.

Best Regards,
Clayton

> I'm not familiar with the 2100/2200 but my 1280 has a selection in 
the
> print menu for black, color or custom. When you select "black" it
> prints using the black ink only so you get the tone of just the 
black
> ink and nothing else. 
> Does a 2100 have this choice? If so, after selecting to just use the
> black ink, so you still have a magenta cast?

Yes.

If I use the matte black cartridge on EAM paper i get I brownish cast 
on the print using black only, but I can tell it's onsly using one 
cartridge by the coarse dots in this mode so I think that's just how 
this ink looks.

With photo black on Premium Semigloss I get a strong purple cast 
regardless of what I select in the driver, selecting 'Black' doesn't 
seem to have any effect at all as it still uses all available colors 
to create grays.

> > I tend to like cool grays, so I don't think I like 
> > the look of the BO print after all, 
> Yes, definitely one of the limitations.  You're at the mercy of the
> ink for its color.  Fortunately I really like the color I'm getting
> with the MIS VM/FS ink.  It's similar to what I had with my favorite
> Ilford MGFB III and Quicksilver developer.

I think I could use this workflow is there was a cooler black ink 
available for the 2100 and if BO with photo black actually worked.

I wish there was a printing mode that would allow me to just use the 
black and the light black, I imagine this could give pleasing results.

> Understood.  Well, good luck with it.
> We're all on our own individual journeys through this forest.  

Yes, and it certainly isn't easy! I hope rumors are true that Epson 
are coming up with some better solutions for this. I'm making 
christmas presents for my family now, and it worries me to give away 
BW photos that might look purple or green depending on which 
lightning conditions they are displayed in. 

> Thanks very much for the extra info. 
> It sheds some more light on things.

It was fun experimenting with this, at least now I have an 
alternative that will give me predictable results.