Digital BW, The Print

I have the occasional need to print on semi-gloss and am considering 
Lyson inks.  There has been talk of metamerism in the past, with both 
quad black and SG.  I wonder if this has been overcome.

Is anyone out there using either of these inksets with semi-gloss 
papers?  How do they fare for metamerism?  I don't need toning 
ability so either inkset is a possible candidate.

I intend on using the Ilford Smooth Pearl, which has a really nice 
surface and weight.  It's also mega cheap here.  Any thoughts as to 
print life where clients are likely to keep the prints in an album?  

Lyson inks are expensive, so I'd like to jump right in with a CIS on 
an 890, rather than try out first with carts.  

Thanks

K2

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "K2 
Chittin <k2lists@h...>" <k2lists@h...> wrote:
>I have the occasional need to print on semi-gloss and am 
>considering Lyson inks.  There has been talk of metamerism in 
>the past, with both quad black and SG.  I wonder if this has 
>been overcome.
> 
>Is anyone out there using either of these inksets with 
>semi-gloss papers?  How do they fare for metamerism?  I don't 
>need toning ability so either inkset is a possible candidate.
>I intend on using the Ilford Smooth Pearl, which has a really 
>nice surface and weight.  It's also mega cheap here.  Any 
>thoughts as to print life where clients are likely to keep the 
>prints in an album?  
> 
>Lyson inks are expensive, so I'd like to jump right in with a CIS 
>on an 890, rather than try out first with carts.  

I regularly use Lyson QuadBlack Neutral on EAM with an Epson 
1160, but I've experimented a bit with semi-gloss papers from 
both Epson and Mitsubishi with limited success - highlights get 
a bit hot, requiring a a fair amount of curve tweaking. I'll be trying 
again in the near future. As for logevity, I have no idea (my EAM 
prints have been quite stable). I did try Smooth Pearl a few nights 
ago, but since I picked the wrong curve by accident I got some 
weird posterization, so I'll have to run out to buy another sampler 
pack and try again.

BTW - I get Lyson QB Neutral carts at $20 each (color or black 
position), which on balance is cheaper per set than standard 
Epson carts. CIS is, of course, cheaper still, but I'm still too 
chicken to go that route, so for now I'll stick with carts.

- Barrett

FWIW, I just tried a set of Lyson Quad Black cartridges in my Canon S9000 
(a 6 ink set) on a variety of papers, including Ilford Smooth Pearl and 
Smooth Gloss.  In daylight the prints are as neutral as can be, but under 
incandescent they have a definite reddish cast.  The color shift under 
fluorescent light was very slight.  I don't have any halogen lamps to 
experiment with, so can't tell you what that light would do. The Ilford 
Smooth Pearl showed less of a color shift under incandescent than did the 
Smooth Gloss paper, which I generally prefer, to the point where if I 
decide to go with these inks I will probably switch to the pearl surface..

The Lyson cartridges are even more expensive than the Canon brand color 
carts, which will produce tolerable but not great B&W prints on Ilford 
Smooth Gloss.  I can't afford to run the pre-filled Lyson carts on a 
regular basis, and so have given up on Lyson unless and until they offer 
their inks in bulk, in which case I will happily refill my own cartridges 
and print beautiful B&W all day.

Wouldn't it always be worth the cost of a set of cartridges to try a new 
inkset before you plunge into a CIS?  No matter what I or some other user 
tells you about our experiences, the final question is how a print made 
with your particular printer, ink, paper and workflow combination looks to 
YOUR eyes in YOUR circumstances.

Cheers,
Kip

At 1/6/2003 02:40 PM +0000, K2 wrote:

>I have the occasional need to print on semi-gloss and am considering
>Lyson inks.  There has been talk of metamerism in the past, with both
>quad black and SG.  I wonder if this has been overcome.
>
>Is anyone out there using either of these inksets with semi-gloss
>papers?  How do they fare for metamerism?  I don't need toning
>ability so either inkset is a possible candidate.
>
>I intend on using the Ilford Smooth Pearl, which has a really nice
>surface and weight.  It's also mega cheap here.  Any thoughts as to
>print life where clients are likely to keep the prints in an album?
>
>Lyson inks are expensive, so I'd like to jump right in with a CIS on
>an 890, rather than try out first with carts.

Kip

I try and follow a few Epson lists but am not always successful 
keeping up to date.  This has been compounded by prolonged illness of 
my grandfather, followed by his recent passing away.

Anyway, to cut to the chase, I hadn't realised that a few recent 
posts (without Lyson in the header) had discussed issues.  I 
apologise.  I did do a quick search of the archives but didn't turn 
up much at the time.  So, thank you very much for your input.

By the way, should you want to do your own refilling SG bulk inks are 
available from inkjetart and virgin carts are available from MIS.  I 
heard a rumour about someone (Mediastreet?) coming out with a CIS for 
the Canon S9000 but I'm not sure if it's out yet.

As for trying out carts first ... you're absolutely right.  I'm just 
too strapped for cash and Lyson carts are way too expensive.  And I 
value the advice of all the people on this list.

K2

Barrett

Thanks for the reply.

Ilford sample packs are freely available here in the UK.  I presume 
only one per customer though.  However, they're also quite cheap from 
online sources.

>CIS is, of course, cheaper still, but I'm still too 
> chicken to go that route, so for now I'll stick with carts.

I've had good success with both major manufacturers' CISes - 
nomorecarts and MIS.  The MIS version is way cheaper.  You don't have 
to resort to assembling the CFS yourself.  The 1160 carts with tubing 
attached (ie CFS ready) is only $35.  You can go the cheap route and 
not even bother with a bottle tray.  Add a vacuum pump and some 
tubing brackets, and you still get a CFS for under $50.  
Inkjetgoodies has one set of 6 "colour" Lyson NT quad bulk inks 
remaining for $75 on their liquidation page.

K2