Digital BW, The Print

Hi. Is anyone here using a notebook PC to edit digital images? I'm 
considering making the switch from PC tower/monitor to notebook (for 
space saving reasons) and I'd appreciate recommendations regarding 
screen type, video card, etc. which you've found to work best. 
Obviously there's a tradeoff in terms of quality versus space, so I'm 
curious about how you've dealt with this tradeoff (e.g. relying more 
on the RGB numbers than what the monitor displays). Thanks!

Cheers,

Mark

HI Mark,

I am using a Toshiba Satellite Pro 6100 - 1.7Ghz 1Gb ram 30Gb HDD 15" LCD,
CDRW/DVD Bluetooth/WiFi - though not as my main machine but this was bought
so when I go out and photograph I can use it to edit on the run.

Well, I don;t if you carry a big camera bag with you or not, but I got a
20Kg+ bag and when adding the laptop (which is a desktop replacement) it
really isn't fun anylonger.

It is great to have a home where I can move around the house and use it and
access my desktop or the internet through the wireless. I do edit some
photos now and then on it, but when it gets really critical (at least for
me) then I move over to my desktop which is far more powerful and has two
monitors.

Why Toshiba, because the make a sturdy machine and they make some of the
best screens for laptops - this machine also have a nVIDIA graphics 32mb
card in it, which does not use shared memory and it is reasonable fast.

if I were to buy today I would look at some of the new
TouchScreens/TabletPC's they seem really cool...but again it is early days
with them and who wants to be a Beta tester for them :-) so we will wait
till 2nd generation comes out.

So if you are not planing on moving around too much with this beast then I
highly recommend it

good luck

Henrik

-----Original Message-----
From: mccarvill <mark_mccarvill@...>
[mailto:mark_mccarvill@...]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 10:03 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Anyone using a notebook PC?


Hi. Is anyone here using a notebook PC to edit digital images? I'm
considering making the switch from PC tower/monitor to notebook (for
space saving reasons) and I'd appreciate recommendations regarding
screen type, video card, etc. which you've found to work best.
Obviously there's a tradeoff in terms of quality versus space, so I'm
curious about how you've dealt with this tradeoff (e.g. relying more
on the RGB numbers than what the monitor displays). Thanks!

Cheers,

Mark



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Mark:

I use a Sony laptop for all my photo work.  It has a relatively large 
screen for a laptop - 15" - as well as Firewire for the scanner, USB 
for the printer and pen tablet, and a CD-burner for my archives.  My 
only caveat (but it's a big one) is that I work in black and white 
only.  Therefore, monitor calibration is not nearly as essential to 
me as it would be to someone doing color work.  (As it is, the 
calibration is pretty close, and you learn over time what the 
relationship is between the values you're seeing on screen and what 
will print on paper - as long as you don't use too many different 
papers.) What I like most about the laptop is simply that it doesn't 
take up much space on my desk.  Therefore, on one surface I have room 
for computer, film scanner, and printer (a 1280).  On the other hand, 
it's way to heavy to carry around on a regular basis.

Hope this helps.

Chuck


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mccarvill 
<mark_mccarvill@h...>" <mark_mccarvill@h...> wrote:
> Hi. Is anyone here using a notebook PC to edit digital images? I'm 
> considering making the switch from PC tower/monitor to notebook 
(for 
> space saving reasons) and I'd appreciate recommendations regarding 
> screen type, video card, etc. which you've found to work best. 
> Obviously there's a tradeoff in terms of quality versus space, so 
I'm 
> curious about how you've dealt with this tradeoff (e.g. relying 
more 

> on the RGB numbers than what the monitor displays). Thanks!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark

I used to be a Toshiba fan, but got a good deal on a Dell Latitude C640
through work.  2.0 GHz, 512 MB of RAM (could get bumped up to 1 gig for
serious photo work), 15" screen 1400x1050 (woohoo!), ATI Radeon 7500 mobile
video chipset, internal 802.11b wireless networking, etc.  I'm a
unruly-software programmer by trade, so this is desktop-replacement sort of
machine, but still pretty small and light, considering.  Since my laptop is
about twice as fast as any desktop machine I have at home these days, I do
all of my photo work on it.  I sometimes use an external monitor if I'm at
my desk, but find that the difference isn't terribly important for me.  One
nice touch is being able to run a fairly primitive dual-monitor setup on it,
CRT for the image and LCD for the palettes, etc.

	As for calibration, gamut, and whatnot... well... yes, I know my LCD is
probably terrible at reproduction, but somehow it works out for me.  Perhaps
my PS "perceptual adjustment" curves take into account that which would
bother me, but I really can't honestly say.

	Oh, and having used the Tablet PC's here at work, I would definitely veto
them for imaging work.  They're slow.  Wickedly cool, but terribly *slow*.

	If you're just trying to save space, a laptop is a poor way to go.  For the
money, you're always better off with a desktop and a hot LCD screen.  But if
you want to go mobile ... go for a nice screen, a good video card, tons of
memory, and lots of processor.

Henrik wrote:

> I am using a Toshiba Satellite Pro 6100 - 1.7Ghz 1Gb ram 30Gb HDD 15" LCD,
> CDRW/DVD Bluetooth/WiFi - though not as my main machine but this was bought
> so when I go out and photograph I can use it to edit on the run.

> > Hi. Is anyone here using a notebook PC to edit digital images? I'm
>> considering making the switch from PC tower/monitor to notebook (for
>> space saving reasons) and I'd appreciate recommendations regarding
>> screen type, video card, etc. which you've found to work best.

Not yet in my case, Mark. But I'm thinking about trying to specify 
such a system so I can expose it for review. Because it seems to me 
to make  lot of sense for anyone who uses a digital camera if the 
notebook can both replace a desktop computer at home (or in an 
office) _and_ serve as a traveling companion for the digital camera. 
And my excuses for not using a digital camera are running out.

I'm assuming that I would want to see the images on the notebook's 
relatively large screen before losing the chance to try the exposure 
again. But I have also been assuming that at home I'd want an even 
larger, and probably a better, monitor to see the images on. There I 
had thought that the notebook's smaller screen would be just for 
palettes and other non-image display. I.e., I'm assuming "dual" 
display, not just "mirroring".

On this assumption, less space is saved if the at-home monitor is 
still a CRT. And less money is saved if it is _not_ still a CRT. 
That's changing with each generation of hardware. But right now, I 
think the best solution for me would be a large CRT backed into a 
corner and slightly raised above the level on which the notebook 
would sit in front of the CRT when driving both displays. If they 
both sit on Anthro.com's smaller two-shelf corner cart, this takes 
less than 4' x 4' out of a corner of a room. And below the lower 
shelf the new notebook sits on, there's room for your old desktop 
computer to hang in a rack and serve as a store house for large hard 
drives and as a print server. The printer(s) could stay either on a 
wing attached to the corner cart or on a separate cart, which could 
move around at print time or be controlled remotely.

Mark is, however, considering an even more minimalist system. Which I 
wouldn't have thought feasible except for small images. But Apple's 
new 17-inch PowerBook has a display which might do. And I'm not sure 
it trades off any quality by requiring image editing "by the 
numbers". What I've been even more intrigued by, though, is the new 
12-inch PowerBook; I'm wondering whether it is big enough for 
palettes, which big CRT would go best with it, and what in-the-field 
experience with the 12-inch iBook has been like?

Sam

>Hi. Is anyone here using a notebook PC to edit digital images? I'm
>considering making the switch from PC tower/monitor to notebook (for
>space saving reasons) and I'd appreciate recommendations regarding
>screen type, video card, etc. which you've found to work best.
>Obviously there's a tradeoff in terms of quality versus space, so I'm
>curious about how you've dealt with this tradeoff (e.g. relying more
>on the RGB numbers than what the monitor displays). Thanks!
>
>Cheers,
>
>Mark

I just got a apple iBook and so far PS7 seems to run smoothly. I need 
to up the RAM but I'm certain once I add another 512mb PS7 won't have 
any problems what so ever.

It seems like I'm the only one here using a Mac, is this true?

Justin

On Friday, January 24, 2003, at 06:02 AM, mccarvill 
<mark_mccarvill@...> wrote:

> Hi. Is anyone here using a notebook PC to edit digital images? I'm
> considering making the switch from PC tower/monitor to notebook (for
> space saving reasons) and I'd appreciate recommendations regarding
> screen type, video card, etc. which you've found to work best.
> Obviously there's a tradeoff in terms of quality versus space, so I'm
> curious about how you've dealt with this tradeoff (e.g. relying more
> on the RGB numbers than what the monitor displays). Thanks!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> It seems like I'm the only one here using a Mac, is this true?
>
> Justin

nope. but the header asks about a PC... ;)
Carolyn

I'm using a mac! You couldn't give me a pc. :)

Jer

Carolyn Frayn wrote:

> 
> > It seems like I'm the only one here using a Mac, is this true?
> >
> > Justin
> 
> nope. but the header asks about a PC... ;)
> Carolyn
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
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> I'm using a mac! You couldn't give me a pc. :)
I'm with you on that one Jerry... but after giving the cotton cloth a 
try on Well's River before printing, I'm going back to my brush.. ;)  
The prints have lovely little cotton fibers under the ink, so now the 
paper may not flake, but the fibers come off. Interesting texture, just 
not required. I must be using the wrong cotton or the wrong technique 
eh?
Carolyn

While we're on this topic, I'm thinking of branching out into the world of
Large Desktop Machines.  So I'd love to trade my Powerbook Pismo for a Mac
G4 of some flavor -- the Pismo is the last of the black Powerbooks, and is
considered by many to be better than most of what's come out since -- the
bus speed of a lot of the Titanium models insures that they don't really
outperform the Pismo, and this model's ergonomics put all of the later
models to shame.  Mine's in superb shape.

I don't take this on the road, and I figure I'd be happier with a big tower
which I could tweak and upgrade to my heart's content.  It can be one of the
early G4's -- has to have a good monitor.  (I've found the Pismo's screen
fine for photographic work.)

Contact me offlist:  douglas@...

Jerry,

After what I have read from you and others on this and other lists, you
couldn't give me a Mac!

'Vive la difference' as the French might say.

Bob Frost.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...>


> I'm using a mac! You couldn't give me a pc. :)

Carolyn, does the brush work?  I like welles river but the flaking is
just too much to bear on a paper in this price category.

Jerry

Carolyn Frayn wrote:

> 
> > I'm using a mac! You couldn't give me a pc. :)
> I'm with you on that one Jerry... but after giving the cotton cloth a
> try on Well's River before printing, I'm going back to my brush.. ;)
> The prints have lovely little cotton fibers under the ink, so now the
> paper may not flake, but the fibers come off. Interesting texture, just
> not required. I must be using the wrong cotton or the wrong technique
> eh?
> Carolyn
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
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To each his own. If you stick with the 9.2.2 OS  and just use a few
programs like I do, you'd be happy with one.
It's when apple trys to come out with something new, WAY too often in my
opinion, that you have problems. System X has so many little problems
and irregularities, I can't see anybody using it seriously yet. They are
more of an inconvenience than anything else, but there are so many or
them that is is a real hassle to use it. Maybe in a couple of years...

Jerry



Bob Frost wrote:

> 
> Jerry,
> 
> After what I have read from you and others on this and other lists, you
> couldn't give me a Mac!
> 
> 'Vive la difference' as the French might say.
> 
> Bob Frost.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...>
> 
> > I'm using a mac! You couldn't give me a pc. :)
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
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Coming off a PC, OS X (10.2.3) has been increadibly stable for me. The 
only problem I have had is MS Internet Explorer is buggy as all hell so 
I unistalled it and got Chimera.

PS7 has run flawlessly so far and I expect that won't change.

Justin

On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 09:19 AM, Jerry Olson wrote:

> To each his own. If you stick with the 9.2.2 OS  and just use a few
> programs like I do, you'd be happy with one.
> It's when apple trys to come out with something new, WAY too often in 
> my
> opinion, that you have problems. System X has so many little problems
> and irregularities, I can't see anybody using it seriously yet. They 
> are
> more of an inconvenience than anything else, but there are so many or
> them that is is a real hassle to use it. Maybe in a couple of years...
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> Bob Frost wrote:
> >
> > Jerry,
> >
> > After what I have read from you and others on this and other lists, 
> you
> > couldn't give me a Mac!
> >
> > 'Vive la difference' as the French might say.
> >
> > Bob Frost.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...>
> >
> > > I'm using a mac! You couldn't give me a pc. :)
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
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>
<image.tiff>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jerry,  The brush works for me.. I like German Etching more than Well's 
but GE doesn't seem to like my 1160 right now... putting them directly 
into sleeves after curing is best of course.

Surprisingly I'm having more ink "flake" (for lack of a better word) 
off Enhanced matte with ultrachrome inks right now. I'm not sure what's 
causing it, if it's flaking, if the paper coating itself is now more 
delicate, or if it's the inks themselves. I'm trying the ultrachromes 
with Photorag now that my order has arrived.
Carolyn

On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 09:40  AM, Jerry Olson wrote:

> Carolyn, does the brush work?  I like welles river but the flaking is
> just too much to bear on a paper in this price category.
>

Yikes! I've never seen flaking with EAM or EEM paper. Or Aspen or Legion
Photo matte. but if Ultrachromes flake off the EEM, maybe they'll flake
off the others too. I haven't used them yet.

Jerry



Carolyn Frayn wrote:

> 
> Jerry,  The brush works for me.. I like German Etching more than Well's
> but GE doesn't seem to like my 1160 right now... putting them directly
> into sleeves after curing is best of course.
> 
> Surprisingly I'm having more ink "flake" (for lack of a better word)
> off Enhanced matte with ultrachrome inks right now. I'm not sure what's
> causing it, if it's flaking, if the paper coating itself is now more
> delicate, or if it's the inks themselves. I'm trying the ultrachromes
> with Photorag now that my order has arrived.
> Carolyn
> 
> On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 09:40  AM, Jerry Olson wrote:
> 
> > Carolyn, does the brush work?  I like welles river but the flaking is
> > just too much to bear on a paper in this price category.
> >
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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Hi Jerry,

Well, I have to disagree. I'm running OS X on both my desktop (dual G4
450MHz, 2GBytes RAM) and my bronze keyboard Black Powerbook (196MB RAM), for
production work (Word, Photoshop and InDesign, to do the dimagemaker
magazine) and things like Painter and my fractal programs for my art. I love
it. I find it is stable and works very well for me. I now run only a few
programs under classic (Canto Cumulus for example).

The other day I was converting part of the web site for DIMI over to a
database model for the book reviews. My ISP runs Apache and MySQL on heavy
Linux boxes. OS X comes with Apache. I downloaded MySQL, installed it all
and had a working database system in 1/2 hour. I then added my data, setup
my dynamic pages in Dreamweaver and tested it live locally. Uploaded the
database and website to the server and it all worked. You gotta love a Unix
core.

Cheers,

Wayne

-- 
Wayne J. Cosshall
Director, International Digital Art Awards, www.internationaldigitalart.com
Director and Editor, Digital ImageMaker International magazine and web site,
www.dimagemaker.com
Personal art website www.artinyourface.com
Australia
wayne@...

So far I've used German Etching, Well's River, and Arches, all flake 
with the ultrachromes, it was the EEM that surprised me though. The 
other Epson papers seem stable so far including the watercolor, but 
can't get a nice neutral with that one. Great color though. Just wish 
it was thicker.
Carolyn

On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 05:10  PM, Jerry Olson wrote:

> Yikes! I've never seen flaking with EAM or EEM paper. Or Aspen or 
> Legion
> Photo matte. but if Ultrachromes flake off the EEM, maybe they'll flake
> off the others too. I haven't used them yet.
>
> Jerry

Somerset Enhanced works well with the Ultrachromes...that's probably why
Epson went with Sommerset for its premium paper.  I'm assuming that you are
rubbing the paper down hard before you print on it...this is essential.  I
take a cotton tee shirt and really go at it on a flat surface.

Robert

On 1/27/03 7:03 AM, "Carolyn Frayn" <carolynfrayn@...> wrote:

> So far I've used German Etching, Well's River, and Arches, all flake
> with the ultrachromes, it was the EEM that surprised me though. The
> other Epson papers seem stable so far including the watercolor, but
> can't get a nice neutral with that one. Great color though. Just wish
> it was thicker.
> Carolyn
> 
> On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 05:10  PM, Jerry Olson wrote:
> 
>> Yikes! I've never seen flaking with EAM or EEM paper. Or Aspen or
>> Legion
>> Photo matte. but if Ultrachromes flake off the EEM, maybe they'll flake
>> off the others too. I haven't used them yet.
>> 
>> Jerry
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
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> 
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> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

I have never had to do that to epson papers, never experienced this 
with any other epson printer/ink/paper combo. Other papers yes, I use 
my drafting brush with good results. I really don't like what  rubbing 
with a cotton tee does to the highly textured surfaces, and I didn't 
like the threads that stuck to the well's, maybe I need to know your 
brand ;)

I agree, Sommerset E is lovely. But for client proofs, I'll use the 
Enhanced... without the flaking.
Carolyn

On Monday, January 27, 2003, at 10:37  AM, Robert Morrison wrote:

> Somerset Enhanced works well with the Ultrachromes...that's probably 
> why
> Epson went with Sommerset for its premium paper.  I'm assuming that 
> you are
> rubbing the paper down hard before you print on it...this is 
> essential.  I
> take a cotton tee shirt and really go at it on a flat surface.
>
> Robert