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Digital BW, The Print

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RE: [Digital BW] Black and White Workflow

RE: [Digital BW] Black and White Workflow

2003-01-31 by Alessandro Pardi

What I do with B&W film is get a raw scan from Vuescan (therefore as RGB),
invert in PS, and then look at 100% magnification to see which channel is
best. With my Canon FS4000 the green channel is always the sharpest/least
noisy, so I apply the channel mixer, convert to grayscale, apply levels, and
finally convert to 8bit mode to start playing with layers.
 
Alessandro Pardi
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: cliffordfeller <cwfeller@...m>
[mailto:cwfeller@...]
Sent: venerdì 31 gennaio 2003 15:48
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Black and White Workflow


I am scanning Tri-X on a Nikon 4000ed with Silverprint as an RGB 
positive file .I am then inverting and converting in Photoshop seven 
using image invert ,levels ,curves and sometimes channel mixer. 
Which is the best technique scanning  as an RGB or Grayscale?
If I scan as RGB where is the best place to do the conversion to 
monochrome ( Channel mixer check box monochrome ?)I have difficulty 
getting a good black and white conversion in levels and curves 
alone.My monitoris a  Lacie and it is calibrated  withOptical.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Cliff


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Black and White Workflow

2003-01-31 by cschaible94111 <cschaible@cooley.com>

Allesandro:

Why not just scan as grayscale in Vuescan?  Is it because you want to 
save the raw scan data?

Chuck



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Alessandro Pardi 
<alessandro.pardi@i...> wrote:
> What I do with B&W film is get a raw scan from Vuescan (therefore 
as RGB),
> invert in PS, and then look at 100% magnification to see which 
channel is
> best. With my Canon FS4000 the green channel is always the 
sharpest/least
> noisy, so I apply the channel mixer, convert to grayscale, apply 
levels, and
> finally convert to 8bit mode to start playing with layers.
>  
> Alessandro Pardi
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cliffordfeller <cwfeller@m...>
> [mailto:cwfeller@m...]
> Sent: venerdì 31 gennaio 2003 15:48
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Black and White Workflow
> 
> 
> I am scanning Tri-X on a Nikon 4000ed with Silverprint as an RGB 
> positive file .I am then inverting and converting in Photoshop 
seven 
> using image invert ,levels ,curves and sometimes channel mixer. 
> Which is the best technique scanning  as an RGB or Grayscale?
> If I scan as RGB where is the best place to do the conversion to 
> monochrome ( Channel mixer check box monochrome ?)I have difficulty 
> getting a good black and white conversion in levels and curves 
> alone.My monitoris a  Lacie and it is calibrated  withOptical.
> Any comments would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Cliff
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> 
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Black and White Workflow

2003-01-31 by cliffordfeller <cwfeller@mindspring.com>

--When you say convert to grayscale in channel mixer do you mean 
check the monochrome box then manipulate the sliders for each 
channel and the save? Is this better then using levels and curves  
to convert the RGB data to monochrome? I am using Imageprint on an 
Epson 2200 and getting great black and white. Thanks
Cliff
- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "cschaible94111 
<cschaible@c...>" <cschaible@c...> wrote:
> Allesandro:
> 
> Why not just scan as grayscale in Vuescan?  Is it because you want 
to 
> save the raw scan data?
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Alessandro 
Pardi 
> <alessandro.pardi@i...> wrote:
> > What I do with B&W film is get a raw scan from Vuescan 
(therefore 
> as RGB),
> > invert in PS, and then look at 100% magnification to see which 
> channel is
> > best. With my Canon FS4000 the green channel is always the 
> sharpest/least
> > noisy, so I apply the channel mixer, convert to grayscale, apply 
> levels, and
> > finally convert to 8bit mode to start playing with layers.
> >  
> > Alessandro Pardi
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cliffordfeller <cwfeller@m...>
> > [mailto:cwfeller@m...]
> > Sent: venerdì 31 gennaio 2003 15:48
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Black and White Workflow
> > 
> > 
> > I am scanning Tri-X on a Nikon 4000ed with Silverprint as an RGB 
> > positive file .I am then inverting and converting in Photoshop 
> seven 
> > using image invert ,levels ,curves and sometimes channel mixer. 
> > Which is the best technique scanning  as an RGB or Grayscale?
> > If I scan as RGB where is the best place to do the conversion to 
> > monochrome ( Channel mixer check box monochrome ?)I have 
difficulty 
> > getting a good black and white conversion in levels and curves 
> > alone.My monitoris a  Lacie and it is calibrated  withOptical.
> > Any comments would be appreciated.
> > Thanks,
> > Cliff
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
> Polls and
> > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> 
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
> wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages 
> to keep
> > them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the 
subject 
> header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
> various
> > resources on the homepage. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Black and White Workflow

2003-02-03 by Alessandro Pardi

Hi Chuck,
 
because when scanning as grayscale Vuescan equally takes information from
the three channels (Ed Hamrick himself confirmed this), so if one of the
channels is sharper than the others the only way is to start from an RGB
file.
How much you lose/gain depends on the scanner, obviously. This weekend I
scanned a few PanF+ negatives that were a bit curled, and I found that in
the same scan, in one area the green channel was best, in the rest the blue
channel was best (!). This makes me believe that the three channels have
different focus planes - I can't tell if by design of if my scanner simply
has something wrong. BTW, the amount of this phenomenon is dependent on the
focus location (with Vuescan you can decide the exact point where focus is
taken). In this situation, of course, the only way out is to save the blue
and green channels as layers, and then mask properly... Quite a pain.
 
Alessandro
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: cschaible94111 <cschaible@...> [mailto:cschaible@...]
Sent: venerdì 31 gennaio 2003 18:30
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Black and White Workflow


Allesandro:

Why not just scan as grayscale in Vuescan?  Is it because you want to 
save the raw scan data?

Chuck



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Alessandro Pardi 
<alessandro.pardi@i...> wrote:
> What I do with B&W film is get a raw scan from Vuescan (therefore 
as RGB),
> invert in PS, and then look at 100% magnification to see which 
channel is
> best. With my Canon FS4000 the green channel is always the 
sharpest/least
> noisy, so I apply the channel mixer, convert to grayscale, apply 
levels, and
> finally convert to 8bit mode to start playing with layers.
>  
> Alessandro Pardi
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cliffordfeller <cwfeller@m...>
> [mailto:cwfeller@m...]
> Sent: venerdì 31 gennaio 2003 15:48
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Black and White Workflow
> 
> 
> I am scanning Tri-X on a Nikon 4000ed with Silverprint as an RGB 
> positive file .I am then inverting and converting in Photoshop 
seven 
> using image invert ,levels ,curves and sometimes channel mixer. 
> Which is the best technique scanning  as an RGB or Grayscale?
> If I scan as RGB where is the best place to do the conversion to 
> monochrome ( Channel mixer check box monochrome ?)I have difficulty 
> getting a good black and white conversion in levels and curves 
> alone.My monitoris a  Lacie and it is calibrated  withOptical.
> Any comments would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Cliff
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> 
> < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> > 
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
> resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> 

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Black and White Workflow

2003-02-03 by Alessandro Pardi

How to use the channel mixer depends on what film you're working with: with
B&W film (which I was referring to in my post) all you want to do is select
the sharpest channel (if there's a significant difference in your scans,
this is hardware dependent), so you check the monochrome box and set 100% in
the channel you want, and 0% in the others (Ctrl+1, +2 or +3 are the
shortcuts for this operation).
Working with color film is completely different, though, as in converting
from color to B&W the three channels typically hold very different
information, so mixing in different percentages may be better than getting
100% from one channel. For maximum flexibility you can save the three
channels as 8bit layers and then mask them (a PS action can do it
automatically, so that you feed it a RGB scan and end up with a grayscale
file with the three original channels as three layers).
 
Alessandro
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: cliffordfeller <cwfeller@...>
[mailto:cwfeller@...]
Sent: venerdì 31 gennaio 2003 21:50
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Black and White Workflow


--When you say convert to grayscale in channel mixer do you mean 
check the monochrome box then manipulate the sliders for each 
channel and the save? Is this better then using levels and curves  
to convert the RGB data to monochrome? I am using Imageprint on an 
Epson 2200 and getting great black and white. Thanks
Cliff
- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "cschaible94111 
<cschaible@c...>" <cschaible@c...> wrote:
> Allesandro:
> 
> Why not just scan as grayscale in Vuescan?  Is it because you want 
to 
> save the raw scan data?
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Alessandro 
Pardi 
> <alessandro.pardi@i...> wrote:
> > What I do with B&W film is get a raw scan from Vuescan 
(therefore 
> as RGB),
> > invert in PS, and then look at 100% magnification to see which 
> channel is
> > best. With my Canon FS4000 the green channel is always the 
> sharpest/least
> > noisy, so I apply the channel mixer, convert to grayscale, apply 
> levels, and
> > finally convert to 8bit mode to start playing with layers.
> >  
> > Alessandro Pardi
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cliffordfeller <cwfeller@m...>
> > [mailto:cwfeller@m...]
> > Sent: venerdì 31 gennaio 2003 15:48
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Black and White Workflow
> > 
> > 
> > I am scanning Tri-X on a Nikon 4000ed with Silverprint as an RGB 
> > positive file .I am then inverting and converting in Photoshop 
> seven 
> > using image invert ,levels ,curves and sometimes channel mixer. 
> > Which is the best technique scanning  as an RGB or Grayscale?
> > If I scan as RGB where is the best place to do the conversion to 
> > monochrome ( Channel mixer check box monochrome ?)I have 
difficulty 
> > getting a good black and white conversion in levels and curves 
> > alone.My monitoris a  Lacie and it is calibrated  withOptical.
> > Any comments would be appreciated.
> > Thanks,
> > Cliff
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
> Polls and
> > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> 
> > < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> > 
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
> wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages 
> to keep
> > them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the 
subject 
> header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
> various
> > resources on the homepage. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service
> > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> . 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> 

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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