Digital BW, The Print

In a message dated 2/25/2003 11:10:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:

> I
> would NEVER spend 4000 dollars for a digital camera, so I'll wait until
> I get what I want for $2500 or less. If it doesn't happen, I'll simply
> live with my D60.
> 

You would if you could make 15 grand a week with it because at 8 frames per 
second, you'd have more good shots to sell in a kids competitive event.

Claude Jodoin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

But I don't do that kind of photography. For what I do, I do NOT need a
top of the line camera. And I doubt that many people make $15 grand a
week in any line of photography, except world class photographers who
own hundreds of thousand dollars worth of equipment and their own
studios. There are damn few photographers earning 780 Grand a year!!!


Jerry

claudej1@... wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 2/25/2003 11:10:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:
> 
> > I
> > would NEVER spend 4000 dollars for a digital camera, so I'll wait until
> > I get what I want for $2500 or less. If it doesn't happen, I'll simply
> > live with my D60.
> >
> 
> You would if you could make 15 grand a week with it because at 8 frames per
> second, you'd have more good shots to sell in a kids competitive event.
> 
> Claude Jodoin
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
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The "good" photographers use that frame rate only in two or three shot
bursts anyway.  Most of them turn the speed  down most of the time.  So, the
Nikon frame rate of 4.5 -5 FPS and the Canon FPS of 8 are basically equal in
the hands of a pro

Then there are those I have run into that just hold the hammer down in hopes
of catching something. But, heck, a monkey could do that, couldn't it?

I've been around both at the same event. 

/r,

Seth

=> You would if you could make 15 grand a week with it because at 8 
=> frames per second, you'd have more good shots to sell in a kids 
=> competitive event.
=> 
=> Claude Jodoin
=>

claudej1@... wrote:

>In a message dated 2/25/2003 11:10:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
>DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>  
>
>>I
>>would NEVER spend 4000 dollars for a digital camera, so I'll wait until
>>I get what I want for $2500 or less. If it doesn't happen, I'll simply
>>live with my D60.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>You would if you could make 15 grand a week with it because at 8 frames per 
>second, you'd have more good shots to sell in a kids competitive event.
>
>
>  
>
You MUST be kidding...

Look, I've HAD my sports imagery published in Sports Illustrated, ESPN 
Magazine, The Sporting News, etc. etc...

Frame rate does not equal some magic number of frames per sale..

There are very limited situations in which a high burst rate or high 
number of images to buffer is useful...

In sports, you might find that shooting an unstrobed drive to the basket 
in basketball.. Oooops, only good for newspapers... High ISO images 
won't make it elsewhere..

Ok, so maybe that  sequence as someone crosses the finish line, breaking 
the ribbon/tape..

Or maybe a NASCAR crash sequence...

Or maybe a long jump, hurdle, etc..

Beyond that, the best images are shot by anticipating -- what 
Cartier-Bresson taught as the moment "where all stands at the pivot 
point of the fulcrum."  :Shooting that moment when all changes"... "The 
decisive moment."  

You get those shots in the can with practice and timing, not by shooting 
500 rolls of film per game...

and it isn't like if you shoot a burst of images you will have an 
accordingly higher variety of subjects in each burst.. That's 
 nonsensical.. You end up with a variety of images of ONE subject..  If 
you are shooting kids in sports, no parent is going to buy a whole roll 
of their kid..

In hoops (basketball), I use strobes, that mean 2-3 seconds between 
shots...  That also means I MUST anticipate and follow the action I 
can't just hold the trigger and pick a shot later.. (that's for video 
people to do, not stills photogs)  Go to any major sporting event 
(unstrobed).  Sit next to those who DO get their images in SI.. No, 
better yet, sit next to one of  those on the SI staff (which I am not 
and have never been)..  You won't hear many long bursts.  You'll hear 
lots of bursts of 2 and 3 shots and lots of single shots -- for the 
amount of time the camera is to their eye you won't hear a lot of 
shutter travel..

So, there is no way that higher frame rate will equate to more quality 
pics to sell to parents.. Unless of course you set up a remote on the 
bottom of a blimp with a wide angle lens aimed downward towards a 
playing field and expect to sell the images of the game... (However, I 
think the sales would be disappointing even with a 24 megapixel camera 
-- it's gonna be tough for parents to ID their own kids)

(Sorry, I just hate it when non-sports shooters opine on how sports 
shooters get "the shot" and make money..)
Keith

 

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Atta boy, Keith-

You went where I was worried to go.  Especially your closing remark.  

Most of the Johnny-come-lately burst frame "pros" couldn't have made it with
film.

Regards,

Seth

=You MUST be kidding...
=
=Look, I've HAD my sports imagery published in Sports Illustrated, ESPN 
=Magazine, The Sporting News, etc. etc...
=
=Frame rate does not equal some magic number of frames per sale..
=
=There are very limited situations in which a high burst rate or high 
=number of images to buffer is useful...
=
=In sports, you might find that shooting an unstrobed drive to 
=the basket 
=in basketball.. Oooops, only good for newspapers... High ISO images 
=won't make it elsewhere..
=
=Ok, so maybe that  sequence as someone crosses the finish 
=line, breaking 
=the ribbon/tape..
=
=Or maybe a NASCAR crash sequence...
=
=Or maybe a long jump, hurdle, etc..
=
=Beyond that, the best images are shot by anticipating -- what 
=Cartier-Bresson taught as the moment "where all stands at the pivot 
=point of the fulcrum."  :Shooting that moment when all 
=changes"... "The 
=decisive moment."  
=
=You get those shots in the can with practice and timing, not 
=by shooting 
=500 rolls of film per game...
=
=and it isn't like if you shoot a burst of images you will have an 
=accordingly higher variety of subjects in each burst.. That's 
= nonsensical.. You end up with a variety of images of ONE 
=subject..  If 
=you are shooting kids in sports, no parent is going to buy a 
=whole roll 
=of their kid..
=
=In hoops (basketball), I use strobes, that mean 2-3 seconds between 
=shots...  That also means I MUST anticipate and follow the action I 
=can't just hold the trigger and pick a shot later.. (that's for video 
=people to do, not stills photogs)  Go to any major sporting event 
=(unstrobed).  Sit next to those who DO get their images in SI.. No, 
=better yet, sit next to one of  those on the SI staff (which I am not 
=and have never been)..  You won't hear many long bursts.  You'll hear 
=lots of bursts of 2 and 3 shots and lots of single shots -- for the 
=amount of time the camera is to their eye you won't hear a lot of 
=shutter travel..
=
=So, there is no way that higher frame rate will equate to more quality 
=pics to sell to parents.. Unless of course you set up a remote on the 
=bottom of a blimp with a wide angle lens aimed downward towards a 
=playing field and expect to sell the images of the game... (However, I 
=think the sales would be disappointing even with a 24 megapixel camera 
=-- it's gonna be tough for parents to ID their own kids)
=
=(Sorry, I just hate it when non-sports shooters opine on how sports 
=shooters get "the shot" and make money..)
=Keith
=