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RE: [Digital BW] Re: HWM v. EEM v. HPR, was: HWM rated more archi val than EAM/EEM !?

RE: [Digital BW] Re: HWM v. EEM v. HPR, was: HWM rated more archi val than EAM/EEM !?

2003-02-26 by Alessandro Pardi

Steve,
 
duplicating the image layer is yet another way to get contrast near to where
you want to. I don't think (of course I may be wrong) that in the end you
can do something this way that you can't obtain with curves, but the beauty
of Photoshop is also that there are so many ways to do things that everyone
can find its own (also, depending on the image, one among equivalent
approaches may work better than others).
Anyway, my question still stands: what about B/W points? You set them before
or afterwards playing with layers this way? Do you set them at all? Is there
any difference in the final print if you get a 100% black setting levels or
working locally as in Jon Cone's tutorial?
 
Alessandro
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 -----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Kobrin <skobrin@...> [mailto:skobrin@...]
Sent: mercoledì 26 febbraio 2003 14:47
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: HWM v. EEM v. HPR, was: HWM rated more archival
than EAM/EEM !?



Alessandro,

While others on the list know more about this than I do, I find that 
experimenting with a layer copied from the image set to various modes 
(i.e., overlay, softlight, hardlight, etc.) really can increase 
contrast and provide depth to a flat image.  You can play with the 
opacity of the layer and get a good deal of micro control by using 
the eraser itself set to various levels of opacity.  I find that 
virtually every scan from my Nikon LS 2000 with B&W film requires at 
least on layer of this sort.  I often find that have to erase some of 
the overlay in the deeper shadows to maintain detail.  I just insert 
the layer and then try a number of modes untill I get one that I 
like.  The downside is that it has to be done in 8 bit mode, so 
layers and curves adjustments have to come first.

Steve


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Alessandro Pardi 
<alessandro.pardi@i...> wrote:
> I've read both tutorials (scanning and getting real blacks in the 
print).
> The main point in the post-scan workflow is not to set white/black 
point, as
> this "stretches" all tones and may result in posterization and harsh
> midtones: you should keep the image as comes out of the scanner, 
and work
> locally to darken shadows until they reach black (and, I suppose, 
lighten
> highlights until they reach white).
> It makes sense, but I think it heavily depends on the image itself 
and the
> film used: with my Canon I found that silver B&W film generates 
scans where
> setting BP and WP is a small adjustment, whereas Portra400BW 
(chromogenic)
> generates very low-contrast scans (the histogram is very narrow) and
> therefore leaving the scan as is yields very flat images.
> OTOH, I don't think you can increase contrast in a scan at hardware 
level,
> all you can do is change exposure (but this should only 
lighten/darken the
> image), so if a scan has low contrast, all you can do is set black 
and white
> point with your s/w (maybe not to 0 and 255).
> Then again, all this extra-care in being very gentle with your 
pixels may
> turn out to be (practically) invisible in the final prints.
> 
> Any opinions/experiences?
> 
> Alessandro Pardi
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Julian Thomas [mailto:julianthomas@t...]
> > Sent: martedì 25 febbraio 2003 9:57
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] HWM v. EEM v. HPR, was: HWM rated more
> > archival than EAM/EEM !?
> > 
> > 
> > I've been doing this for years now, but 'I've only just 
> > started reading and
> > following JC's tutorial on shadow detail - there are just 
> > sooo many tricks
> > to learn!
> > 
> > Julian
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <bob@b...>
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 2:33 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] HWM v. EEM v. HPR, was: HWM rated 
> > more archival
> > than EAM/EEM !?
> > 
> > 
> > > Alessandro & Julian: Thanks, I will try your suggestions as they
> > > really make sense. I have to agree that so many of my 
> > printing issues
> > > and questions come back to basic use of Photoshop, an area 
where I
> > > still need improvement.
> > > Bob Michaels
> > >
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
> > Alessandro Pardi
> > > <alessandro.pardi@i...> wrote:
> > > > Hi Bob,
> > > >
> > > > one reason might be that the image hasn't 100% blacks. You can
> > > verify it in
> > > > Photoshop: if the darkest parts of the picture, those 
> > that should be
> > > pure
> > > > black, with no detail, even read 1 or 2 rather than 0, you're 
not
> > > getting
> > > > the best blacks in the final print.
> > > > As someone else posted not long ago, checking this is worth 
as a
> > > standard
> > > > routine before printing, but the more so when comparing 
papers.
> > > >
> > > > Hope this helps,
> > > > Alessandro
> > > >
> > > >  -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Bob_Michaels <bob@b...> [mailto:bob@b...]
> > > > Sent: domenica 23 febbraio 2003 0:18
> > > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] HWM v. EEM v. HPR, was: HWM rated 
more
> > > archival
> > > > than EAM/EEM !?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Truman: This is amazing. I pulled out an image I just 
> > printed on all
> > > > three papers. Critically comparing the HPR and EEM prints 
side by
> > > > side, I simply can see no difference in the blacks, 
> > shadow detail or
> > > > highlights. And, the base of the EEM is very slightly 
> > whiter than the
> > > > HPR. All different from your observations. Maybe they vary in
> > > > production batches. Anyway, very puzzling.
> > > > Bob Michaels
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
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