Digital BW, The Print

In a message dated 2/26/2003 1:04:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:

> s2 which has a real resolution of approximately 8 - 9 MP although being an 
> effective 6-mio bayer patterned photosite imager
> 
> Never said it was that much greater. Said it was a bit better than the
> D60 chip. Not a LOT better.
> 

The Foveon X3 is a little better than the D60 and only slightly better than 
the S2 in the sharpness department. It will also interpolate to a 14 
Megapixel file from it's RAW processing software, so it gives the new Canon 
11 MP a run for it's money. More importantly, what it doesn't have is moire 
patterns in my backlit veil and "killer pillow'" test which makes all single 
shot digital cameras tested here in the last 5 years (you name it) puke. Only 
the Sigma/X3, the original Foveon 3-chip prism camera, and the Kodak Pro Back 
with the Anti Aliasing filter have escapted the killer pillow intact.

Where the Foveon creations shine is when you make 40x50 canvases on a Big 
Epson. Everyone else falls apart at 30x40.

Claude Jodoin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Claude,

> It will also interpolate to a 14
> Megapixel file from it's RAW processing software, so it gives the
> new Canon
> 11 MP a run for it's money.

Any actual images to support that claim, that can be downloaded?  Is it
stated exactly what processing was done to the images, and exactly what
equipment was used?

> More importantly, what it doesn't
> have is moire
> patterns in my backlit veil and "killer pillow'" test which makes
> all single
> shot digital cameras tested here in the last 5 years (you name
> it) puke.

Where is a description for, and data from, this "test"?

> Where the Foveon creations shine is when you make 40x50 canvases on a Big
> Epson. Everyone else falls apart at 30x40.

I've done many test on quite a few digital cameras, and yes, have tested
Foveon images, and I find this claim unbelievable.  I have no idea what
images you are comparing, and from what cameras, and what processing was
done to them.  If you can provide more information about your claims, I'll
be interested.

Don't take this the wrong way, but can you give a bit more background
information about the background of your "tests".  I don't know if you're an
amateur happy-snapper who just reads this stuff somewhere and repeats it, or
if you have a complete testing lab, or for that matter, own Foveon.  I am a
professional engineer in the digital imaging industry, and have been for 25
years.  I've also owned two commercial studios.  I believe this gives me
some level of authority to say the things I do and evaluate the validity of
testing and claims that people make WRT digital imaging...but it certainly
doesn't make me right all the time.

Regards,

Austin

Claude,

> It will also interpolate to a 14
> Megapixel file from it's RAW processing software, so it gives the
> new Canon
> 11 MP a run for it's money.

yes it will. so will a 600x800 picture downloaded from the web. at what cost
and to what final quality ?

no matter how great this 3 MP are ... they still are. better than other
available 3 MPS ... but not even a real match to 6 MP crop of SLRs. not even
mentioning the 1DS

i do not want to paint foveon black. but it is not a panacea. sensor or
software it is used with currently deliver results which under optimal
conditions surpass comaparable 3,4 and even some 5 mp cameras ... however i
rarely shoot under ideal conditions outside studio and technological
shortcomings and limitaions of the current sigma-incarnation (being sigma is
one point amongst many ;-)))) .) are way too prohibitive to be taken into
serious account in my case.

from what i have seen some far, the rather poor implementation has
"castrated" the possibilities. naturally, with no previous D-SLR experience
and limited success with their SLR bodies Sigma was a rather strange choice
in my opinion. even Pentax would be a more sound idea in my books, not even
mentioning the sinking ship of minolta SLRs, once an innovative company now
marginalized.

so let's stop unsubstantiated claims and stick to the facts.

for that matter the new generation of fuji's super ccd with "extended"
latitude for greater dynamic range looks promising in my eyes. i certainly
hope to see it in a SLR body soon - it might even come as a backup for the
kodak 14n i am waiting for to emerge on the market ...

regards

veniamin kostitsin
Vienna.Moscow