Digital BW, The Print

Hope this isn't adding fuel to the flame but the specs on the camera are now 
posted at <A HREF="http://www.canoneos.com">http://www.canoneos.com</A>
Billie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi gang,

I have a question for anyone out there with a Canon 10D. I just got 
this camera and shot some stuff today. Originally I was shooting in 
Large file setting but shifted over to the RAW setting. When I try to 
upload the file into the computer using a USB card reader only the 
Large file jpegs are readable by the computer or photoshop. They 
can't seem to read or convert the RAW file images.

Is there a step I'm missing? I can tell I got some lovely shots in 
the RAW format. Can someone tell me how I can get them into photoshop?

Thanks,

Tim

On Saturday, May 15, 2004, at 03:30 PM, Tim Timmermans wrote:

>
> Hi gang,
>
> I have a question for anyone out there with a Canon 10D. I just got
> this camera and shot some stuff today. Originally I was shooting in
> Large file setting but shifted over to the RAW setting. When I try to
> upload the file into the computer using a USB card reader only the
> Large file jpegs are readable by the computer or photoshop. They
> can't seem to read or convert the RAW file images.
>
> Is there a step I'm missing? I can tell I got some lovely shots in
> the RAW format. Can someone tell me how I can get them into photoshop?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
>

I have a digital Rebel, but if the software is the same, you need to 
either use the Canon software which lets you download a RAW image, 
which can then be saved to a TIFF that PS can read, or you need Adobe 
RAW, which now is bundled only with PS CS.  You might also have to 
change a setting in the camera's menu under tools 2.  There are two 
settings, normal and PTP, but these may have to do with using iPhoto 
(on Mac).  From the camera the utility and settings that let iphoto see 
images are different for JPEGs vs RAW files.

James Irelan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You can convert the RAW using the File Viewer utility from Canon that came
with your camera or if you have Photoshop CS, it can read RAW natively or
you can buy a third party utility.  Choice is yours. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Timmermans [mailto:zenphoto7@...] 
> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:31 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Canon 10D
> 
> 
> Hi gang,
> 
> I have a question for anyone out there with a Canon 10D. I 
> just got this camera and shot some stuff today. Originally I 
> was shooting in Large file setting but shifted over to the 
> RAW setting. When I try to upload the file into the computer 
> using a USB card reader only the Large file jpegs are 
> readable by the computer or photoshop. They can't seem to 
> read or convert the RAW file images.
> 
> Is there a step I'm missing? I can tell I got some lovely 
> shots in the RAW format. Can someone tell me how I can get 
> them into photoshop?

Did you install the Canon File Viewer Utility?

It will allow you to convert RAW files to 16 bit TIFFs. Then you can open
them in PS.

Rick Murai
> 
> From: "Tim Timmermans" <zenphoto7@...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 22:30:42 -0000
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Canon 10D
> 

> 
> Hi gang,
> 
> I have a question for anyone out there with a Canon 10D. I just got
> this camera and shot some stuff today. Originally I was shooting in
> Large file setting but shifted over to the RAW setting. When I try to
> upload the file into the computer using a USB card reader only the
> Large file jpegs are readable by the computer or photoshop. They
> can't seem to read or convert the RAW file images.
> 
> Is there a step I'm missing? I can tell I got some lovely shots in
> the RAW format. Can someone tell me how I can get them into photoshop?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
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> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, R Murai 
<rmurai@e...> wrote:
> Did you install the Canon File Viewer Utility?
> 
> It will allow you to convert RAW files to 16 bit TIFFs. Then you 
can open
> them in PS.


Duh...thanks guys. I figured it out and was coming back to apologize 
before folks wasted their time but you guys are quick and the draw 
and a great and much appreciated resource. I did download the Canon 
disk and while using a USB flash card reader would not let me even 
upload the raw files into the computer, when I uploaded directly from 
the camera I got the raw files.

The conversion took place in something called zoombrowser-ex but they 
didn't end up in PS as 16 bit but as 8 bit. Don't things have to be 
converted to 8 bit to use a lot of the PS tools?

Thanks again

Tim

Hi, Tim.  Your Canon raw files should upload from the card to the computer
OK.  To use the RAW images you need Photoshop 8, which has a raw converter,
or better get Capture One LE ($100) from www.phaseone.com.  For me the
Capture One is easier to use.  I think they have a free trial period.

Regards,

  --Ken Carney
    www.kencarney.com  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Timmermans [mailto:zenphoto7@...] 
> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 5:31 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Canon 10D
> 
> 
> Hi gang,
> 
> I have a question for anyone out there with a Canon 10D. I 
> just got this camera and shot some stuff today. Originally I 
> was shooting in Large file setting but shifted over to the 
> RAW setting. When I try to upload the file into the computer 
> using a USB card reader only the Large file jpegs are 
> readable by the computer or photoshop. They can't seem to 
> read or convert the RAW file images.
> 
> Is there a step I'm missing? I can tell I got some lovely 
> shots in the RAW format. Can someone tell me how I can get 
> them into photoshop?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
> you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership 
> preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
> or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
> removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic 
> posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and 
> decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group 
> Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
> THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
> INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN 
> IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
> ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
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> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
>

Tim,

My solution is to use Fred Miranda's actions when
shooting RAW with the 10d.  Go to www.fredmiranda.com
and follow the software portal.  There is an action
that he sells for dirt cheap, Canon 10D LPbatch
16-bit, that works with converted raw files.  For the
action to work, you also need dcrawX to convert the
raw file to a photoshop document:
http://frostyplace.com/dcraw

This works much better for me than the supplied canon
software.  Additionally, the 10d profile that is
included in Fred's action is very good and includes
sharpening actions.

Don
 
--- Tim Timmermans <zenphoto7@...> wrote:
> 
> Hi gang,
> 
> I have a question for anyone out there with a Canon
> 10D. I just got 
> this camera and shot some stuff today. Originally I
> was shooting in 
> Large file setting but shifted over to the RAW
> setting. When I try to 
> upload the file into the computer using a USB card
> reader only the 
> Large file jpegs are readable by the computer or
> photoshop. They 
> can't seem to read or convert the RAW file images.
> 
> Is there a step I'm missing? I can tell I got some
> lovely shots in 
> the RAW format. Can someone tell me how I can get
> them into photoshop?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
> and other resources as they are often being updated.
> 
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
> digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your
> Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of
> earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal
> attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or
> argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group
> topic of digital B&W printing. Users who
> persistently make off-topic posts may be removed
> from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the
> group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the
> actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd
> in the Files section:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
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> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
> TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>
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> 
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>
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 



	
		
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> From: Tim Timmermans [mailto:zenphoto7@...]
>
> I have a question for anyone out there with a Canon 10D. I just got
> this camera and shot some stuff today. Originally I was shooting in
> Large file setting but shifted over to the RAW setting. When I try to
> upload the file into the computer using a USB card reader only the
> Large file jpegs are readable by the computer or photoshop. They
> can't seem to read or convert the RAW file images.

Apparently, your on an earlier version of PS. I recommend the upgrade to PS
CS, because it handles raw files very well, and also can do practically all
editing in 16-bit mode.

By the way, you should join the Canon-10D Yahoo group.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

> The conversion took place in something called zoombrowser-ex 
> but they didn't end up in PS as 16 bit but as 8 bit. Don't 
> things have to be converted to 8 bit to use a lot of the PS tools?

Tim, I never used the Canon raw converter because of an internet convergence
of opinion that it was really bad.  But it should open in PS as a 16-bit
(really 12-bit) file.  PS 8 (a/k/a PS CS  - what were they thinking with
that name?) allows layers and more tools in 16-bit.  Fortunately I don't
print that large (up to 10x15 image size or so) but with 1.3 gb RAM it's a
little slow in 16-bit.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Carney" 
<kcarney1@c...> wrote:
> > The conversion took place in something called zoombrowser-ex 
> > but they didn't end up in PS as 16 bit but as 8 bit. Don't 
> > things have to be converted to 8 bit to use a lot of the PS tools?
> 
> Tim, I never used the Canon raw converter because of an internet 
convergence
> of opinion that it was really bad.  But it should open in PS as a 
16-bit
> (really 12-bit) file.  PS 8 (a/k/a PS CS  - what were they thinking 
with
> that name?) allows layers and more tools in 16-bit.  Fortunately I 
don't
> print that large (up to 10x15 image size or so) but with 1.3 gb RAM 
it's a
> little slow in 16-bit.

I was out of town for several days but I wanted to thank everyone who 
responded to my my posts. You folks are great.I will look into 
alternative conversion techniques. 

I am currently using the Canon software to convert the raw files into 
tif files which I then convert into PSD files for editing and 
printing. Does anyone here print and edit the tif files? Is there 
quality loss into converting to PSD?

Tim

> I am currently using the Canon software to convert the raw 
> files into tif files which I then convert into PSD files for 
> editing and printing. Does anyone here print and edit the tif 
> files? Is there quality loss into converting to PSD?

Tim, it is not necessary to convert a tif to psd for editing.  I'm not aware
of any quality difference between those two formats, although psd is
preferable when you want to save your adjustment layers for later review.
That is the only time I save as psd rather than uncompressed tif.

> Tim, it is not necessary to convert a tif to psd for editing...although psd is
> preferable when you want to save your adjustment layers for later review.

With the latest Photoshop, adjustment layers are saved in both formats. I think this started 
with Photoshop 7.

On May 19, 2004, at 4:22 PM, John Vitollo wrote:

>
>> Tim, it is not necessary to convert a tif to psd for 
>> editing...although psd is
>> preferable when you want to save your adjustment layers for later 
>> review.
>
> With the latest Photoshop, adjustment layers are saved in both 
> formats. I think this started
> with Photoshop 7.

Yes, layered TIFF support began in PS 7 - just be careful with this, as 
most apps cannot read layered TIFF properly (though if you embed a 
fullsize preview it will at least place fine). I use layered TIFF (with 
ZIP compression) for archiving all of my large, layered files - sizes 
are fraction of that for PSD for the same document.

Also, yes, both TIFF and PSD are typically lossless-encoded (TIFF does 
support JPEG compression, but that's rarely used), so there's no loss 
of detail going between the formats. However, there may be features 
(such as layers) which are not supported identically between the 
formats or by other applications.

Within Photoshop however, you can go back and forth between a layered 
TIFF and layered PSD as many times as you want with no loss of 
information; and likewise, you can go between a flattened TIFF and 
flattened PSD with no loss.

-R

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "D. Hill" 
<hill14701@y...> wrote:
> Tim,
> 
> My solution is to use Fred Miranda's actions when
> shooting RAW with the 10d.  Go to www.fredmiranda.com
> and follow the software portal.  There is an action
> that he sells for dirt cheap, Canon 10D LPbatch
> 16-bit, that works with converted raw files.  For the
> action to work, you also need dcrawX to convert the
> raw file to a photoshop document:
> http://frostyplace.com/dcraw
> 
> This works much better for me than the supplied canon
> software.  Additionally, the 10d profile that is
> included in Fred's action is very good and includes
> sharpening actions.
> 

Thanks Don,

I'm running Windows XP. I think dcrawx is only for Mac. The Miranda 
action will not function without dcrawx?

Tim

Tim, 

The Miranda action includes a work-around that you use
instead of the dc-rawx.  His site has the details.

Don

--- Tim Timmermans <zenphoto7@...> wrote:

> I'm running Windows XP. I think dcrawx is only for
> Mac. The Miranda 
> action will not function without dcrawx?
> 
> Tim



	
		
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