Digital BW, The Print

Has anyone used the new Eboni ink successfully yet?  I put it into a new
cartridge yesterday, in a new CIS system.  Everything appeared to go
smooth as silk, all ink chambers filled immediately, and there are and
were no air bubbles in the ink lines, none at all.  But I have the worst
case of clogging and banding I've ever seen. First I get nozzle checks
that are nearly perfect, then perform a cleaning cycle, and 3/4ths of
them are clogged.  Next check is almost perfect, but yields horrible
banding.  I've made dozens of head cleanings now, with a confirmation
check between each. I have not got one perfect nozzle check yet.  The
printer is a replacement for another epson 1280 that had banding.  This
banding is the worst I've ever seen, about half the paper is white. An
all black square starts out with black ink for about 1/8th of an inch at
the top, and by the time it gets to the bottom, there is no black ink
laid down at all.

The black test patch itself is the worst. the light grays also have
banding but not as bad as the Eboni.  This banding goes way beyond
ordinary banding. You can see it from 2 feet away.

Since everything is brand new, I hesitate to push ink through the
printheads with a syringe, but I've tried about everything else.  Could
I just have bad cartridges? Would pulling them out and pushing them back help?

A test with epson original inks before installing the CIS system
revealed a perfect print with no banding anywhere, so I seriously doubt
its the printer or printheads that are at fault.  

Any Ideas before I start all over again?  I've about had it with
clogging and banding. I think I really need a new hobby, or a different
brand of printer.

Jerry

Jerry,

It sounds like your system is sucking air for some reason.  I have not used
Eboni in a CIS, but my vacuum-filled carts and the 7500 have had no problems
at all with the ink.  Not having a co-solvent, MIS is convinced it's much
less likely to clog than the VM/FS ink.  Sorry I can't be of more help.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
_____________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 8:23 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Eboni Ink clogging, worst banding I've ever seen
in 7 years of digital printing


Has anyone used the new Eboni ink successfully yet?  I put it into a new
cartridge yesterday, in a new CIS system.  Everything appeared to go
smooth as silk, all ink chambers filled immediately, and there are and
were no air bubbles in the ink lines, none at all.  But I have the worst
case of clogging and banding I've ever seen. First I get nozzle checks
that are nearly perfect, then perform a cleaning cycle, and 3/4ths of
them are clogged.  Next check is almost perfect, but yields horrible
banding.  I've made dozens of head cleanings now, with a confirmation
check between each. I have not got one perfect nozzle check yet.  The
printer is a replacement for another epson 1280 that had banding.  This
banding is the worst I've ever seen, about half the paper is white. An
all black square starts out with black ink for about 1/8th of an inch at
the top, and by the time it gets to the bottom, there is no black ink
laid down at all.

The black test patch itself is the worst. the light grays also have
banding but not as bad as the Eboni.  This banding goes way beyond
ordinary banding. You can see it from 2 feet away.

Since everything is brand new, I hesitate to push ink through the
printheads with a syringe, but I've tried about everything else.  Could
I just have bad cartridges? Would pulling them out and pushing them back
help?

A test with epson original inks before installing the CIS system
revealed a perfect print with no banding anywhere, so I seriously doubt
its the printer or printheads that are at fault.

Any Ideas before I start all over again?  I've about had it with
clogging and banding. I think I really need a new hobby, or a different
brand of printer.

Jerry


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>> I put it into a new cartridge yesterday, in a new CIS system.<<

Sounds like ink starvation and/or loss of vacuum seal somewhere in the in
the system.  The black ink cart is much larger than the other color cart
positions.  If you don't get a real, real good vacuum when you first suck
inks into the carts, you will see black ink saturate the sponge material but
in reality you won't have enough ink "pooled" in the cart.

I had this same problem with the same printing symptoms Saturday when I
loaded up the CIS with the new Ultratone VM inks.  A quick 30cc draw of ink
through the bottom of the cart and a few hours to settle fixed everything.
BTW, make sure to draw the ink with the supply inlet side of the cart
oriented down and the outlet (where you draw the ink with the syringe)
oriented at the top.  In my experience, this does a better job of saturating
the sponge as you pull ink through the new cart.

Doug

Doug, 

Thanks for answering.  I have done over 60 + cleanings now with
confirmation check between them.

Nothing works. All the ink went down about the same amount when I primed
and vacuumed the cartridges at installation.  I just made a full scale
print of a photo, theres one white, one gray, and wherever black should
be, a light gray with stripes. There is NO air in the lines.

This is a CIS system.

Are you saying to suck the ink out of the TOP of the cartridge?  Where
are there any holes that you could do this?
Mine look like they have been filled with epoxy. There doesn't appear to
be any place in the CIS cartridges that you could insert a syringe,
except through solid plastic!

When first loading the CIS with ink, the cartridges loaded in about half
a second. All of them. So I'm pretty sure there is a good vacuum in there.

Jerry

I don't understand the following:


> BTW, make sure to draw the ink with the supply inlet side of the cart
> oriented down and the outlet (where you draw the ink with the syringe)
> oriented at the top.  In my experience, this does a better job of saturating
> the sponge as you pull ink through the new cart.

If the cartridge is nipple side down, you are saying there are two
outlets? If the cart is oriented down, and you are withdrawing the ink
from the nipple area. What exactly is oriented at the top?

Jerry

>> I have done over 60 + cleanings now with confirmation check between
them.<<

If the ink cart never got enough ink to pool, it won't matter how many
cleaning cycles you do.  By pooling, I mean that it has more ink than the
minimum to saturate the sponge.  Again, the black cart is much larger with a
much larger internal sponge, so it often does not charge as fully by the
vacuum method compared to the small color positions.

>>This is a CIS system.<<

>>Are you saying to suck the ink out of the TOP of the cartridge?<<

No.  I was explaining the orientation of the cartridge as you held it in
your hand or placed it on your desk while sucking the ink through.  The
syringe (with narrow adapter tip) is inserted in the hole on the "bottom" of
the cart.  This "bottom" hole is where the cart attaches to the probe coming
up from the printhead.  Use your 60cc syringe to draw at least 30cc slowly
into the syringe.

>>I don't understand the following:<<

You have the inlet of the cart which is where the tube from your black CIS
bottle is attached to the cart.  You have the outlet of the cart which is
the hole where the cart attaches to the probe coming up from the printhead
when the cart is inserted into the printer. I found that the ink did a
better job of saturating the cartridge when the inlet was held in my hand so
that it was lower than the outlet as I drew ink through the cart with a
syringe via the outlet.

You will need to let the cart "settle" for a while after inserting in the
printhead.  Additionally, you will have to go through multiple cleaning
cycles again to actually charge the printhead after letting it settle.

BTW, someone posted here that when trying to charge printhead via the
cleaning cycles, you should print a portion of a test image (any image, make
it a very small size) every three cleaning cycles.  This resets the
printer's cleaning cycle routine.  Apparently there is a diminishing amount
of pumping for each subsequent cleaning cycle run.  After three you aren't
really pumping much ink.  It seemed to make a difference for me.

Doug

Hi Doug, Thanks for the quick reply again!

Ok, I'm holding the black cart with inlet (top of cart) is lower than
the outlet. The cart is now on its side, facing down a little bit. 

I don't have an "adapter" on my syringe. I have several size syringes,
some needles, etc. I DO have a little cone shaped piece of plastic that
nearly comes to a point. This is what the original CIS vacuum pumps used
to use to insert the pump in the ink tube. The pumps are now different.
Is this perhaps what you mean?  It fits a syringe, and is about an inch
long. I could shove this in the outlet a short ways. 

Jerry
>

Doug, Do you think I should go back to the old black ink I was using in
the previous CIS systems?  The eboni ink is new, however paul roark does
say he has had no problems with it in his large format printer. This
really does look like a situation where the ink simply isn't getting
through to the paper. 

Jerry

>> I DO have a little cone shaped piece of plastic that nearly comes to a
point.<<

That sounds like the same thing I use.  Just be careful not to jam it in
there too far and mess up the cart's ability to seal against the head.  You
don't need to stick it in but a little bit to be able to get it to draw.  If
another person is around to hold the cart for you so that you have both
hands free, that is best.

>>Doug, Do you think I should go back to the old black ink I was using in
the previous CIS systems?<<

The new ink sounds like a potentially real improvement.  I don't think you
have had a chance to really see what it can do yet.  Don't give up now!

>> This really does look like a situation where the ink simply isn't getting
through to the paper. <<

Agreed.  This seems like it is a CIS and printer issue at this point, not an
issue with the ink itself.

Just my opinion from what you have posted.

Doug

Jerry,
I don´t believe it is the ink.
I´m having absolutely the same problem as you have in this very 
moment, only difference: I used the  o l d   VM inks to reinstall a 
CIS om my 1270, and in my case it is the Cyan, which doesn´t 
even print one only nozzle.
I believe something is wrong with the vacuum or with the rubber 
outlet of the cart. The printhead-nozzles are not clogged. If I 
switch to the OEM carts, all nozzles are printed.
Well, not much help, I know, but a bit of consolation, at least?
Bernd




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jerry 
Olson <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Doug, Do you think I should go back to the old black ink I was 
using in
> the previous CIS systems?  The eboni ink is new, however 
paul roark does
> say he has had no problems with it in his large format printer. 
This
> really does look like a situation where the ink simply isn't 
getting

> through to the paper. 
> 
> Jerry

Thanks Doug.  I'll try this, then let it set for awhile!

Jerry

Jerry, in all the talk about clogging and the CIS I can't see where you 
mention which printer this is happening on..
Keith

 

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry Keith, the 1280. Nomorecarts CIS, and MIS VM inks with Eboni Black.

Any ideas?  I still can't get anything except light stripes on a patch 
that should be 100 percent black!

Jerry




Editor P.O.V. Image Service wrote:

> Jerry, in all the talk about clogging and the CIS I can't see where you 
> mention which printer this is happening on..
> Keith
> 
>  
> 
> "Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
> User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
> Publications), at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
>  
> "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
> guys"
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
>

Jerry Olson wrote:

>Sorry Keith, the 1280. Nomorecarts CIS, and MIS VM inks with Eboni Black.
>
>Any ideas?  I still can't get anything except light stripes on a patch 
>that should be 100 percent black!
>
>Jerry
>
>
>  
>
AGGGHHHHHH@!!!

That's why I asked...

Ok, me holding off putting them in my 1270 until you find the cause..

My BETA bottlers can sit a few days..
Keith

 

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]