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Hydrocoating

Hydrocoating

2003-05-05 by davajonj

As promised, I am reporting on my experience in using hydrocote to coat my 
prints.  In a former post I explained my technique for coating prints indicating I 
was having a satisfying degree of success.  I indicated that I was going to 
experieriment with an HVLP paint gun to see if it would be better and less 
involved.  I have now coated a number of prints using my HVLP gun and I am 
astonished at how much easier it is to coat prints and, more importantly, how 
much better the prints are coated.  With the HVLP the coat is much thicker--
perhaps twice as thick--and the finished product is gorgeous!  (If I can use that 
adjective.)  It is difficult to put into words that will convey the look of the 
sprayed print but it looks like it has much more depth and I don't mean 
thickness.  It IS thicker but also the photographs take on a look of greater 
depth and impact.  The dmax is also increased with of course is an added 
benefit.  I can't imagine going back to the meyer rod which works o.k. but is 
much touchier to get a perfect finish.  Nor can I imagine using Lustre or Glossy 
paper although I know you might like those papers. If anyone is interested in 
knowing my exact procedure with the HVLP, I'll be happy to detail it.  My wish 
is to help other photographers benefit from my observations.  It must be 
mentioned, that I'm just another guy trying to create images that please and 
my findings and observations are just mine, that's all.  Mr. Roark, if you ask, I'd 
be delighted to send you a print or two coated with the HVLP which you can 
scrap after you look at them and comment on the procedure for the rest of us.  
Joe

Re: [Digital BW] Hydrocoating

2003-05-05 by sdmey4@aol.com

Joe, do tell  !!
Info about the suppliers, the spray gun, costs etc.
The type of paper your coating? The atmospheric conditions in which you use 
the spray gun?  A booth, your garage? Are the prints flat or tacked up 
vertical for best results. The size of the prints your coating etc. Dry time, 
pitfalls?
Your reports really make me want to try this.
Steve Meyers


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Hydrocoating

2003-05-05 by Roger L Sopher

Hi Joe,

I have been spraying with Krylon Kamar as well as Flexible Fixatif but spray cans are a pan in the posterior fundament. Both of these will give a pop to dmax but I haven't applied them as more than a very thin coat. I would be very interested in your HVLP spray technique.

Roger

Roger L. Sopher 
rlsopher@... 
http://deCorrales.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: davajonj [mailto:davajon@...]
  Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 1:05 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Hydrocoating


  As promised, I am reporting on my experience in using hydrocote to coat my 
  prints.  In a former post I explained my technique for coating prints indicating I 
  was having a satisfying degree of success.  I indicated that I was going to 
  experieriment with an HVLP paint gun to see if it would be better and less 
  involved.  I have now coated a number of prints using my HVLP gun and I am 
  astonished at how much easier it is to coat prints and, more importantly, how 
  much better the prints are coated.  With the HVLP the coat is much thicker--
  perhaps twice as thick--and the finished product is gorgeous!  (If I can use that 
  adjective.)  It is difficult to put into words that will convey the look of the 
  sprayed print but it looks like it has much more depth and I don't mean 
  thickness.  It IS thicker but also the photographs take on a look of greater 
  depth and impact.  The dmax is also increased with of course is an added 
  benefit.  I can't imagine going back to the meyer rod which works o.k. but is 
  much touchier to get a perfect finish.  Nor can I imagine using Lustre or Glossy 
  paper although I know you might like those papers. If anyone is interested in 
  knowing my exact procedure with the HVLP, I'll be happy to detail it.  My wish 
  is to help other photographers benefit from my observations.  It must be 
  mentioned, that I'm just another guy trying to create images that please and 
  my findings and observations are just mine, that's all.  Mr. Roark, if you ask, I'd 
  be delighted to send you a print or two coated with the HVLP which you can 
  scrap after you look at them and comment on the procedure for the rest of us.  
  Joe 


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Hydrocoating

2003-05-05 by Paul Roark

>Joe, do tell  !!
...

Yes, please.

Some have found the Hydrocote to clog easily in the nozzles, but there may
be procedures and types of sprayers that avoid this.

Some of the HVLP (what does that stand for?) sprayers apparently only work
for spraying vertical surfaces.  Yet, some like to lay the print flat and
"pool" the PUR to get a heavy, single coat.

Some of the general painting literature says that with water-based PUR, the
second and third coats should be applied only when the first is completely
dry and then only after the first is prepared physically or chemically so
that the subsequent coats will stick.  I suspect that the adherence concern
is for high-gloss surfaces, but it would be interesting to know if there are
any separation issues.  Frankly, with cross-linking going on for 7 days, I
don't see why the layers would not attach themselves to each other if done
after dry by before fully cured.

I think one advantage of PUR is the relative lack of tackiness after the
curing period.  However, some have suggested that multiple coats might
result in this tackiness never going away -- or taking a very long time to
go away.  So, one test we ought to be doing is, after 7 days, stack
prints -- even try some face to face -- put books on them, and see if they
stick together after quite a period like that.

At any rate, thanks to all who are doing this PUR spraying work.  If it can
be made reliable and easy enough to be practical, the samples I've seen may
indicate it is a final step that really gets this medium up to and past the
silver print.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Hydrocoating

2003-05-06 by davajonj

I'll attempt to answer all the questions I have received in response to my 
comments about hydrocoating.  Remember though, I'm just reporting my 
observations so you must remember I'm no expert.  Your results may differ 
from mine given the numerous variables in any photographic procedure.  

Anyway,   HVLP is an acronym for "High Volume, Low Pressure. "  Mine is not 
an expensive one but you can pay hundreds for a really good one.  I think I 
paid a hundred or a hundred and a half for mine.  The paint gun has a plastic 
bottle which mounts vertically on the gun and the material being used is fed 
by gravity.  

I use only Epson Enhanced Matte and I use from 8x10 to 13 x19 sheets.  
Unlike using a meyer rod, you can coat any size without  difficulty.  I cut a 
piece of cardboard exactly the same size of the print or just a tiny bit smaller.  
Using removable scotch tape, I make a ring of the tape about an inch or so in 
diameter with the sticky side out and attach  the rings of tape to the back of the 
print.  I then place the print on the cardboard so that no part of the cardboard 
can be seen.  This assures that the cardboard can be used over and over 
again and the rings of tape hold the print down flat so that it doesn't curl when 
it is sprayed.. I've cut cardboard pieces to fit any size I normally would want to 
coat and use them over and over again.  

I place the print and cardboard backing down on some newspapers after 
wiping it off very carefully with a soft hankerchief.  I would not  try shooting 
vertically as my experience has shown that runs are a serious problem 
shooting vertically.

Once my paint gun is loaded with the hydrocote,  I begin spraying using a 
back and forth movement of arm and wrist painting the material in a smooth 
consistence manner from outside the print, across the print, and past it.  I 
begin at the bottom two inches or so of the print which is closest to me and 
spray back and forth until I can see the print is well coated without any dry or 
thin areas.  I then move up the print slowly repeating the procedure over and 
over until I get to the top of the print and see that it too is fully coated.  

I do this in my garage without any special preparation to the garage.  I spray 
when the temperature is between  say 55 and 75 degrees.  I don't know if the 
temperature is critical but I imagine that at lower temperatures  one might 
have a problem making the material flow out.  Too hot and I think you could 
run into other problems.  

The prints dry to the touch in about an hour at room temperature.  They are 
not a bit tacky.  I have been allowing one week before sleeving just to be safe.  
I'm in the dark here so take my word with a grain of salt.  

I find there is almost no overspray with a HVLP and thus you save on material.  
At $42 a gallon,  you don't want to be spraying everything in the garage, 
right?  Since there is only nominal overspray I don't feet the need for a mask 
or respirator.  I don't even smell the material.  

Forgive the lengthy post but I wanted to make sure I covered all your 
questions.  I would much appreciate seeing your own observations after you 
try this and whether this post is helpful for you.   I'd like to learn more.

If you have any other questions, please ask.

Joe

Re: [Digital BW] Hydrocoating

2003-05-06 by Henrik Frejborg

Hi,

Is there an equivalent product to Hydrocoat available in Europe?


cheers,
Henrik

Re: [Digital BW] Hydrocoating

2003-05-06 by Ernst Dinkla

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Henrik Frejborg" <henrik.frejborg@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Hydrocoating


> Hi,
>
> Is there an equivalent product to Hydrocoat available in
Europe?
>
>
> cheers,
> Henrik

Henrik,

I've tried to find one in Europe but couldn't so far.
The problem is that there are no precise descriptions of the
available urethanes.
Simple water based isn't enough. It has to be aliphatic and then
the there are other specs to compare like molec.weight.
Most manufacturers use alkyds or acryls as the other component or
it is a two component aliphatic system or an aromatic solvent is
used and so they all are not what Hydrocote is.

There's a product poly-f that is used as a anti-graffity coating
etc.

http://members.chello.nl/~p.post1/coatings.htm

In Dutch I have to say.

That seems to be similar but no specs and a company that uses it
not the manufacturer itself.

Ernst

Re: Hydrocoating

2003-05-06 by cubefarmjb

Wow, I used Hydrocoat years ago to seal the furniture I was making
and now on my prints!  It is a good choice from a DYI standpoint
because waterbornes are so easy and safe to use.  A gallon with a
HVLP set up would last a long time.  I hope this works out and thanks 
to all doing the testing.

Cheers, jb.

Re: [Digital BW] Hydrocoating

2003-05-06 by Gordon Clemett

Joe can you give   the manufactures  name or website .

I would like to find yhis product in Vancouver BC Canada

Gord Clemett
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: davajonj 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 7:09 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Hydrocoating


  I'll attempt to answer all the questions I have received in response to my 
  comments about hydrocoating.  Remember though, I'm just reporting my 
  observations so you must remember I'm no expert.  Your results may differ 
  from mine given the numerous variables in any photographic procedure.  

  Anyway,   HVLP is an acronym for "High Volume, Low Pressure. "  Mine is not 
  an expensive one but you can pay hundreds for a really good one.  I think I 
  paid a hundred or a hundred and a half for mine.  The paint gun has a plastic 
  bottle which mounts vertically on the gun and the material being used is fed 
  by gravity.  

  I use only Epson Enhanced Matte and I use from 8x10 to 13 x19 sheets.  
  Unlike using a meyer rod, you can coat any size without  difficulty.  I cut a 
  piece of cardboard exactly the same size of the print or just a tiny bit smaller.  
  Using removable scotch tape, I make a ring of the tape about an inch or so in 
  diameter with the sticky side out and attach  the rings of tape to the back of the 
  print.  I then place the print on the cardboard so that no part of the cardboard 
  can be seen.  This assures that the cardboard can be used over and over 
  again and the rings of tape hold the print down flat so that it doesn't curl when 
  it is sprayed.. I've cut cardboard pieces to fit any size I normally would want to 
  coat and use them over and over again.  

  I place the print and cardboard backing down on some newspapers after 
  wiping it off very carefully with a soft hankerchief.  I would not  try shooting 
  vertically as my experience has shown that runs are a serious problem 
  shooting vertically.

  Once my paint gun is loaded with the hydrocote,  I begin spraying using a 
  back and forth movement of arm and wrist painting the material in a smooth 
  consistence manner from outside the print, across the print, and past it.  I 
  begin at the bottom two inches or so of the print which is closest to me and 
  spray back and forth until I can see the print is well coated without any dry or 
  thin areas.  I then move up the print slowly repeating the procedure over and 
  over until I get to the top of the print and see that it too is fully coated.  

  I do this in my garage without any special preparation to the garage.  I spray 
  when the temperature is between  say 55 and 75 degrees.  I don't know if the 
  temperature is critical but I imagine that at lower temperatures  one might 
  have a problem making the material flow out.  Too hot and I think you could 
  run into other problems.  

  The prints dry to the touch in about an hour at room temperature.  They are 
  not a bit tacky.  I have been allowing one week before sleeving just to be safe.  
  I'm in the dark here so take my word with a grain of salt.  

  I find there is almost no overspray with a HVLP and thus you save on material.  
  At $42 a gallon,  you don't want to be spraying everything in the garage, 
  right?  Since there is only nominal overspray I don't feet the need for a mask 
  or respirator.  I don't even smell the material.  

  Forgive the lengthy post but I wanted to make sure I covered all your 
  questions.  I would much appreciate seeing your own observations after you 
  try this and whether this post is helpful for you.   I'd like to learn more.

  If you have any other questions, please ask.

  Joe



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  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

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  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Hydrocoating

2003-05-07 by Robert Morrison

On 5/5/03 2:29 PM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> Some of the HVLP (what does that stand for?)

High Volume Low Pressure.

It is a pain in the next to clean a HVLP spray gun and you need a spray
booth...but it is the best option for over 24" wide prints.


Robert

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