Digital BW, The Print

GB,

I have no experience with HP printers other than entry level units used to
print day-to-day text output. I've never really heard of HP as being an kind
of contender in the "serious" photographic printer race. As of now, Epson
dominates this market. Canon, however, is coming on strong with their
photographic printers.

IMO the printer/ink choice will eventually all boil down to how picky you
are about your B&W output. The Epson 2200 can produce fairly acceptable B&W
prints right out of the box. However, to really push the envelope--for both
B&W and color--on this printer and get everything that it's capable of
delivering you will need a RIP, such as ImagePrint. At the very least, you
should profile a 2200 via one of the online services if you plan to use the
Epson driver. If you want the absolute best possible B&W output and are
willing to climb the learning curve, I would suggest an Epson 1280/1290 with
either MIS UltraTones or one of the Piezo inksets. Personally, my vote goes
to any one of the MIS inksets. I've had experience with both MIS and Piezo
inks and my experience with MIS's inks has been more positive. I think all
on this list would agree that Paul Roark has put in yeoman effort developing
the variable-tone inks and workflows!

That's the short answer. As you can probably tell already, printer/ink/paper
combinations are many and the choice ultimately comes down to what you want
to get out of it. Good luck.

Alan Huntley

----- Original Message -----
From: "gregban2000" <greg.banner@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 4:53 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Newbie Questions


I am have a few newbie b&w printing questions, so I hope that there
is someone with patience out there.

Background. I am a hobbyist: whilst I like b&w photography, the only
place you'll find one of my prints is on one of my walls. I've got a
Canon 10D, and PE2, which was bundled with it. I have just acquired a
silveroxide.com FP4 plug in filter for PE2. My printer is an HP 5550,
which is not the best starting point, I suppose (I get the impression
that HP printers are not considered serious contenders for b&w
printing). I am told it shares the same engine as the hp7x50 range.
It takes two carts at a time: either two colour or one colour and one
black. Two colour carts produces acceptable prints up to 8x10. It was
also cheap as chips.

What I am finding when I print b&w images so far is this:
- using two colour carts produces unmistakably sepia prints.
- using only the black cart produces a dirty, slightly brown tinted
printed, which is highly grained (around ISO800), and moreover the
transverse printing lines of the cart are visible.
- using one colour and one black cart produces a print that looks
blue & white. Interestingly, the local photoshops produce a similar
looking print from b&w images. I haven't tried any of the more
commercial print processors in London yet.

My questions are
1 What is the best I can expect to get from my existing set up? I
have seen references here to 4 and 6 tone black printing, but mostly
in the context of Epson and Canon printers. I am guessing therefore
that there is some hardware distinction that stops these inks being
using in HP printers. Is that right? If not, any ideas on where I
start looking for 4/6 tone inks that would be suitable, and how I
would get them into the HP carts I have (by which I mean I guess that
you can't just bung any old tone into any old part of a cart)?

2 I have tried (but I am thinking about) using profile prism to
profile my printer. Is that a pie-in-the-sky idea for b&w? I assume
you need access to a good quality scanner - anyone able to confirm?

3 If the limitations of my existing set up are unsurmountable, then
from the things I've gleaned here, I guess I am looking at something
like an Epson 2200. Is that the realistic "entry level" printer? I
ask because if so, then assuming I can find a satisfactory bricks and
mortar outlet that can/will produce a good print, my volumes probably
cannot justify a 2200.

Thanks for listening, sorry about any jargon gaffs, and thanks for
any responses.

GB

> 
> From: cpeacock@...
> Date: 2003/10/03 Fri PM 01:32:42 EDT
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Newbie Questions
> 
>There seems to be a suggestion that by using cleaning >cartridges you can routinely switch back and forth between >various ink cartridges on a 1270. I am suspicious that >this is far from easy and I'd be better off getting a >printer and dedicating it to B&W inks.

Switching cartridges, running cleaning cycles in between, etc., is certainly possible when using the small cartridges such as in the Epson 1270. However, IMO, you're better off and certainly provides more efficient workflow if you dedicate a printer to quadtone printing.

>    Second, if I do get a second printer is a 1270 really >the best choice for B&W (at least at similar cost). I've >seen recommendations that an Epson 1160 would be better >since it has fewer colors, others suggesting an Epson 1200 >since it has not IC in the cartridge, others suggesting a >2000P since it was designed for pigment ink and many >others saying not to waste your money on Epson printers at >all (these seem to suggest $5000 printers that wouldn't >fit into my apartment). Any opinions here?

The Epson 1160 is long discontinued, though available, occasionally, refrubished and/or on the used market. It is a decent printer for making quadtones. Based on your anticipated cost range, I would suggest an Epson 1280 with MIS inks; especially, if the rebate is still available. I think the recent rebate put this printer at ~$300US. If you want to go the next step up, get an Epson 2200 with UC inks and run Roy's QuadToneRIP or one of the various RIPs available such as ImagePrint. Much getter investment here, though...

>    Third, back when I did old fashioned wet darkroom >work, my favorite paper was Dupont Varilour Double Weight >Glossy which I dried without ferrotyping. When that went >away I changed to Ilford Gallerie which was lots more >expensive and almost as good. These papers gave a smooth >surface (and great detail) without much gloss. Does anyone >have an opinion about a paper I can get that will come >close to this and work with pigmented inkjet ink? The >Epson Matte is nice, but not at all the same.

I used quite a bit of Varilour in my "dark" past...Sorry, but, IMO, you won't be able to match it, or any other silver print, with inks. Quadtones have a beauty all to their own and should be treated as something entirely different than silver-based printing. I worked in the wet darkroom for 30 years and, though there are certain aspects of the B&W silver print that I miss, I really like the quality and look available through quadtone printing. The image resides more "in the paper"...kind of like platinum.

>    Fourth, do most people on the list use pre-filled >cartridges, or do you fill your own? Is filling cartridges >much or a hassle?

I used to use a CIS, but it's a real pain when you want to try other inks; like when MIS/Paul introduced UltraTones. Now I refill cartridges from MIS. I refill once, and toss the cartridge when it's empty. A little more expensive than refilling, again, but I don't want the hassles that can come from bubbles, foam, etc., remaining in the cartridge.

>    Sorry if these are all "asked and answered" questions -> but from what I've seen, you guys seem to know what you >are doing -- and I don't.

Don't apologize...that's what we're here for. Good luck.

Alan Huntley