Digital BW, The Print

I've written a program that produces ICC profiles for Quadtone (or 
Hextone, for that matter) printers. It attempts to reduce the 
visibility of dots and to provide smooth gradients. Although I don't 
plan to release the software (it has no GUI and I don't plan to build 
one) I'd like to post profiles it produces to the group but I don't 
know how. Moderator, could you help me?

So far I've only profiled the Epson 1160 using MIS Full Spectrum 
Quadtone inks on Epson Enhanced Matte paper. For the time being I'm 
providing this free to anyone who wants to use it, subject to 
copyright of course. I'm still developing the software so the profiles 
will change over time.

The 1160 printer settings should be:

Matte Paper - Heavyweight
Color mode checked
1440 DPI
High Qualtiy Halftoning
High Speed: Off
'Color Controls' selected, Automatic mode, all sliders at 0


Some of the features of the profile are:

- Standard ICC profile, so it should work with any ICC-compliant 
software, such as QImage and Photoshop. 
- Uses standard Epson driver (of course) which means no weird 
interface to learn
- Far fewer dots than the Epson driver alone, but not as dotless as 
the Cone driver plugin
- Supports "preview" mode in Photoshop (and other software using 
ICC-based previews). Preview mode is a very nice feature since you can 
keep the file as a color file, switch to Preview with this profile, 
and tweak the RGB channels to create different B&W effects. I 
recommend you do all tweaking in Preview mode since the profile does 
alter the grey output somewhat (to be fixed in a future version). The 
preview is fairly accurate.

Known problems:

- The greyscale isn't properly calibrated (I don't have a reflective 
Q60 target. I'll have to order one soon... Anyone willing to donate 
one? :-) ).
- There are still dots, but I'm slowly convincing myself that dots are 
OK as long as the gradients are smooth
- It's rather large. I haven't bothered to reduce the size yet.

Note that this is an ALPHA version. I welcome feedback but please 
don't expect me to support your color management efforts. 

- Steven Kasapi

Steven,

you can send stuffed profiles to either Martin or myself and we can upload. 
You may use our addresses (see intro at group home page) or simply the 
"owner" address that yahoo provides.

Antonis



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "nevnevsf" 
<nev@s...> wrote:

> I've written a program that produces ICC profiles for Quadtone (or 
> Hextone, for that matter) printers. It attempts to reduce the 
> visibility of dots and to provide smooth gradients. Although I don't 
> plan to release the software (it has no GUI and I don't plan to build 
> one) I'd like to post profiles it produces to the group but I don't 
> know how. Moderator, could you help me?

> - Steven Kasapi

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"nevnevsf" <nev@s...> wrote:
> I've written a program that produces ICC profiles for Quadtone 
(or 
> Hextone, for that matter) printers. It attempts to reduce the 
> visibility of dots and to provide smooth gradients. Although I 
don't 
> plan to release the software (it has no GUI and I don't plan to 
build 
> one) I'd like to post profiles it produces to the group but I don't 
> know how. Moderator, could you help me?
> 
> So far I've only profiled the Epson 1160 using MIS Full 
Spectrum 
> Quadtone inks on Epson Enhanced Matte paper. For the time 
being I'm 
> providing this free to anyone who wants to use it, subject to 
> copyright of course. I'm still developing the software so the 
profiles 
> will change over time.
> 
> The 1160 printer settings should be:
> 
> Matte Paper - Heavyweight
> Color mode checked
> 1440 DPI
> High Qualtiy Halftoning
> High Speed: Off
> 'Color Controls' selected, Automatic mode, all sliders at 0
> 
> 
> Some of the features of the profile are:
> 
> - Standard ICC profile, so it should work with any 
ICC-compliant 
> software, such as QImage and Photoshop. 
> - Uses standard Epson driver (of course) which means no 
weird 
> interface to learn
> - Far fewer dots than the Epson driver alone, but not as dotless 
as 
> the Cone driver plugin
> - Supports "preview" mode in Photoshop (and other software 
using 
> ICC-based previews). Preview mode is a very nice feature 
since you can 
> keep the file as a color file, switch to Preview with this profile, 
> and tweak the RGB channels to create different B&W effects. I 
> recommend you do all tweaking in Preview mode since the 
profile does 
> alter the grey output somewhat (to be fixed in a future version). 
The 
> preview is fairly accurate.
> 
> Known problems:
> 
> - The greyscale isn't properly calibrated (I don't have a reflective 
> Q60 target. I'll have to order one soon... Anyone willing to 
donate 
> one? :-) ).
> - There are still dots, but I'm slowly convincing myself that dots 
are 
> OK as long as the gradients are smooth
> - It's rather large. I haven't bothered to reduce the size yet.
> 
> Note that this is an ALPHA version. I welcome feedback but 
please 
> don't expect me to support your color management efforts. 
> 
> - Steven Kasapi

I have a 1160 and use MIS FS inks, I would be very pleased to 
have your profiles, if you have a list please include my name.  

Ron Norman

On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 08:37  PM, nevnevsf wrote:

> snip
>
> The 1160 printer settings should be:
>
> 'Color Controls' selected, Automatic mode, all sliders at 0
>
> Note that this is an ALPHA version. I welcome feedback but please
> don't expect me to support your color management efforts.
>
> - Steven Kasapi

why are you using color controls in an ICC based workflow?
Carolyn

Hi Carolyn,

In other printers (Epson 1280 and Epson 870) I found choosing "No 
Color Control" put too much ink down on the paper, so I've always used 
"Color Controls" but left them at the default settings when using an 
ICC workflow. Although the "Automatic" dropdown selection implies 
Epson changes ink output on the fly the output is in fact stable (at 
least that's what I've found). Too much ink was more of a problem for 
me before because I was using glossy paper with color ink and 
excessive ink would cause bronzing.

However, now I'm using quadtone inks and matte paper. I'll try 
re-profiling with the "No Color Adjustment" selected and see what 
happens.



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carolyn Frayn 
<carolynfrayn@s...> wrote:

> 
> On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 08:37  PM, nevnevsf wrote:
> 
> > snip
> >
> > The 1160 printer settings should be:
> >
> > 'Color Controls' selected, Automatic mode, all sliders at 0
> >
> > Note that this is an ALPHA version. I welcome feedback but please
> > don't expect me to support your color management efforts.
> >
> > - Steven Kasapi
> 
> why are you using color controls in an ICC based workflow?
> Carolyn

I tool, have had problems with an MIS ICC profile not only laying down too much ink on glossy ( with the GP ink) but also a severe shift towards cyan in the color balance  I'm now tediously working out my own profile with proper color balance to match the well balanced monitor tones.
Anybody else having problems with these ICC profiles? BTW, I tried the MIS profile on both somerset enhanced as well as double glossy, both had severe cyan shift independent of paper surface.
Alan  

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: nevnevsf 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 11:19 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1160, MIS FS Quadtone Profile ALPHA


  Hi Carolyn,

  In other printers (Epson 1280 and Epson 870) I found choosing "No 
  Color Control" put too much ink down on the paper, so I've always used 
  "Color Controls" but left them at the default settings when using an 
  ICC workflow. Although the "Automatic" dropdown selection implies 
  Epson changes ink output on the fly the output is in fact stable (at 
  least that's what I've found). Too much ink was more of a problem for 
  me before because I was using glossy paper with color ink and 
  excessive ink would cause bronzing.

  However, now I'm using quadtone inks and matte paper. I'll try 
  re-profiling with the "No Color Adjustment" selected and see what 
  happens.



  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carolyn Frayn 
  <carolynfrayn@s...> wrote:
  > 
  > On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 08:37  PM, nevnevsf wrote:
  > 
  > > snip
  > >
  > > The 1160 printer settings should be:
  > >
  > > 'Color Controls' selected, Automatic mode, all sliders at 0
  > >
  > > Note that this is an ALPHA version. I welcome feedback but please
  > > don't expect me to support your color management efforts.
  > >
  > > - Steven Kasapi
  > 
  > why are you using color controls in an ICC based workflow?
  > Carolyn


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 10:19  AM, nevnevsf wrote:


Hi Nev,

Thanks for responding... ;)

>
> In other printers (Epson 1280 and Epson 870) I found choosing "No
> Color Control" put too much ink down on the paper, so I've always used
> "Color Controls" but left them at the default settings when using an
> ICC workflow.

There was some talk about using the color controls a while back on 
other lists (for color printing) because they appeared to have a better 
linear neutral ramp, but when using color controls with profiles 
intended for NCA (as they should be used AFAIK), it was restricting the 
gamut etc... quads aren't color of course, but good consistent behavior 
is still important.

The only way I achieve consistent, printer to printer, monitor to 
print, printer to printer results, is with good profiles, and NCA.

> Although the "Automatic" dropdown selection implies
> Epson changes ink output on the fly the output is in fact stable (at
> least that's what I've found). Too much ink was more of a problem for
> me before because I was using glossy paper with color ink and
> excessive ink would cause bronzing.

I have always gone by the thought that the profiles you create cannot 
be cross platform when using the drivers color controls. Rather you 
should use NCA, the file converts to the profile and all variables are 
dictated by the profile/rendering intent/media setting etc... not color 
managed in the driver.

Any profile I have, canned, custom ... uses NCA. So I was just curious, 
if you are developing actual "profiles" for quads with software you 
have developed... why you choose a different approach...  If you were 
finding too much ink being layed down with NCA, is that not a profile 
issue?


> However, now I'm using quadtone inks and matte paper. I'll try
> re-profiling with the "No Color Adjustment" selected and see what
> happens.

Have you tried evaluating different media settings using NCA.

I hope you find your solutions and enjoy the process...
Carolyn

Hi Carolyn,

Your points are well taken. I went ahead and made a new version of the 
profile using No Color Adjustment (NCA) and it worked fine. If you'd 
like a copy let me know. The new version of the profile suppresses 
dots as well. I'll see if I can get the new version posted. 

Again, if anyone else would like a copy of the profile I'm happy to 
distribute it (for the Epson 1160, Full Spectrum Quad Tone, Epson 
Enhanced Matte). The greyscale tones are still not correct because I 
don't have a Q60 target, but it's relatively close.

[ As an aside, scanner-based profiling (which I use) can't profile 
bronzing (excessive ink deposition) because bronzed colors just look 
like black (or something close to it). Unfortunately, choosing "No 
Color Adjustment" can put too much ink on glossy paper, causing 
bronzing. Fortunately, B&W printing uses matte paper so bronzing isn't 
an issue. I'll stick with "No Color Adjustment" until I have a reason 
to change to another setting. ]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carolyn Frayn 
<carolynfrayn@s...> wrote:
> 
> On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 10:19  AM, nevnevsf wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Nev,
> 
> Thanks for responding... ;)
> 
> >
> > In other printers (Epson 1280 and Epson 870) I found choosing "No
> > Color Control" put too much ink down on the paper, so I've always 
used
> > "Color Controls" but left them at the default settings when using 
an
> > ICC workflow.
> 
> There was some talk about using the color controls a while back on 
> other lists (for color printing) because they appeared to have a 
better 
> linear neutral ramp, but when using color controls with profiles 
> intended for NCA (as they should be used AFAIK), it was restricting 
the 
> gamut etc... quads aren't color of course, but good consistent 
behavior 
> is still important.
> 
> The only way I achieve consistent, printer to printer, monitor to 
> print, printer to printer results, is with good profiles, and NCA.
> 
> > Although the "Automatic" dropdown selection implies
> > Epson changes ink output on the fly the output is in fact stable 
(at
> > least that's what I've found). Too much ink was more of a problem 
for
> > me before because I was using glossy paper with color ink and
> > excessive ink would cause bronzing.
> 
> I have always gone by the thought that the profiles you create 
cannot 
> be cross platform when using the drivers color controls. Rather you 
> should use NCA, the file converts to the profile and all variables 
are 
> dictated by the profile/rendering intent/media setting etc... not 
color 
> managed in the driver.
> 
> Any profile I have, canned, custom ... uses NCA. So I was just 
curious, 
> if you are developing actual "profiles" for quads with software you 
> have developed... why you choose a different approach...  If you 
were 
> finding too much ink being layed down with NCA, is that not a 
profile 

> issue?
> 
> 
> > However, now I'm using quadtone inks and matte paper. I'll try
> > re-profiling with the "No Color Adjustment" selected and see what
> > happens.
> 
> Have you tried evaluating different media settings using NCA.
> 
> I hope you find your solutions and enjoy the process...
> Carolyn

Monday, May 26, 2003, 9:40:03 PM, nevnevsf wrote:

n> Hi Carolyn,

n> Your points are well taken. I went ahead and made a new version of the 
n> profile using No Color Adjustment (NCA) and it worked fine. If you'd 
n> like a copy let me know. The new version of the profile suppresses 
n> dots as well. I'll see if I can get the new version posted. 

n> Again, if anyone else would like a copy of the profile I'm happy to 
n> distribute it (for the Epson 1160, Full Spectrum Quad Tone, Epson 
n> Enhanced Matte). The greyscale tones are still not correct because I 
n> don't have a Q60 target, but it's relatively close.

n> [ As an aside, scanner-based profiling (which I use) can't profile 
n> bronzing (excessive ink deposition) because bronzed colors just look 
n> like black (or something close to it). Unfortunately, choosing "No 
n> Color Adjustment" can put too much ink on glossy paper, causing 
n> bronzing. Fortunately, B W printing uses matte paper so bronzing isn't 
n> an issue. I'll stick with "No Color Adjustment" until I have a reason 
n> to change to another setting. ]

Hi Nev,

I use an 1160 with MIS FS-N inks and would love to give your profiles
a try.

Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...

L i n k s  t o  m y  g a l l e r i e s:
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