Digital BW, The Print

Are the Sundance inks the same as the Piezo inks?  If not are they
compatible with the Piezography software?  Is the Image Export BW sold by
BWGuys the same as the Piezography software?

Thanks in advance.

Norm

> Are the Sundance inks the same as the Piezo inks?  If not are they
> compatible with the Piezography software?  Is the Image Export BW sold by
> BWGuys the same as the Piezography software?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Norm

Hi Norm,

My understanding, despite what was "marketed" at the time, is that the
Sundance inks were OEM'd (bought from Sundance) by Cone and re-named Piezo,
so yes, they would be the same inks if that is true.

Also, it is my understanding that Cone did not develop the Piezo driver,
that again, was OEM'd from an outside party.  Cone apparently had a two year
exclusive agreement which recently was up, and apparently not renewed.  This
is why the "original" inks and software are no longer available from
Cone...and why Cone had to develop a new "system".

Whether this new system is actually better or not, I question.  I tried to
ask some particular questions about it (like does it do the purported
dithering between tones to provide "thousands of tones" that was claimed of
the original Piezo, and does it print at 3x720 or 2160DPI as was claimed of
the original Piezo), and got no worthwhile answers.

I know some may say "just try it", but I have no intention of spending a
thousand dollars AGAIN just to muddle through problems that I already have
solved and working nicely with my current system.

Austin

Norm-


> Are the Sundance inks the same as the Piezo inks?  If not are they
> compatible with the Piezography software?  Is the Image Export BW sold 
> by
> BWGuys the same as the Piezography software?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Norm

My understanding is that the original Piezography inks were the same as 
the Sundance inks (and in fact made by Sundance).  The new Piezotone 
inks are definitely not the same as the Sundance inks.

The Image Export from BWGuys is the same as the Piezography software.

--
Kevin Gulstene
www.dockwalker.com

In a message dated 5/25/2003 8:48:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
normsams@... writes:

> Are the Sundance inks the same as the Piezo inks?  If not are they
> compatible with the Piezography software?  Is the Image Export BW sold by
> BWGuys the same as the Piezography software?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Norm
> 
Sundance inks are not the same as the new "piezotone" inks now sold by 
inkjetmall. The new Piezotones come in 4 differently hued sets and are much more 
stable! They don't shift to warm over time. I have found the Piezotones inks to 
be quite compatible with the original Piezo driver as well as the Piezo Pro RIP 
both of which where made by R9 corp. Now sold through BWGuys. My legacy files 
that where created for the original sundance inks have transported to the new 
inks with minimal fuss. 
I use Piezotone Sepia in a 3000 and even a custom blend based on the warm 
neutral piezotone set in a 7000. All is good with the new inks and old driver.
Too be clear! Sundance inks are the original inks and the new product and 
completely different formula is now referred to as "Piezotones"
Steven Meyers


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "normsams" 
<normsams@w...> wrote:
> Are the Sundance inks the same as the Piezo inks?  If not are they
> compatible with the Piezography software?  Is the Image Export BW 
sold by
> BWGuys the same as the Piezography software?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Norm

Norm-

You've gotten good answers on the inks...the interesting part is that 
the software is all the same...and you might gain some advantage by 
loading the profiles from a different vendor than you started with...

I started with Piezo and have recently loaded the sundance 
profiles...for some reason they then don't see any of the piezo ones, 
but that's ok...there are more that I use in the sundance set.

All of the software works quite well with the MIS FS and FSN inks 
which have caused me ZERO problems (and Piezo original inks were a 
nightmare for me...and many other desktop printers...to be fair, it 
seems that the wide format users really had no problems with the 
original inks and apparently a lot of them still use them). The 
Piezotones are a completely new animal and most folks seem to have 
little problem with them...if they work for you, they are beautiful.

cheers,

tom

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "normsams" <normsams@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 8:46 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Piezography/Sundance Confusion


> Are the Sundance inks the same as the Piezo inks?  If not are they
> compatible with the Piezography software?  Is the Image Export BW sold by
> BWGuys the same as the Piezography software?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
Norm,

Well I don't know if all our answers have helped or added to your
understandable confusion.

Here is the timeline as I understand it. (Someone please jump in if I have
any of this wrong.)

Sundance, an ink company, and R9, a software company, teamed up and started
marketing Sundance inks and the R9 plugin driver to go with them. They sold
the inks through Digital Art Supplies. They then entered into an exclusive
marketing arrangement for 2(?) years with ConeTech (Inkjetmall) who
rebranded the inks and the plug-in as Piezography.

Only one hue or color of quad inks was available and it suffered from
various problems, primarily excessive clogging, the ink warm shifted with
time and some people felt the ink had a bit of a green cast to it. The
software worked very well and is still regarded highly. Initially the
software cost was high.

(In the mean time MIS released a set of inks called "Full Spectrum" which
closely matched the hue and density of the original Piezo inks so that they
could be used with the Piezo/R9 plug-in. They also offered lower cost and
greatly improved clogging, warm shift and fade. I will leave the MIS
Variable Mix inks out of this discussion.)

At the end of the exclusive marketing contract Inkjetmall and Sundance/R9
separated their ink business. Inkjetmall brought out a new line of inks
called PiezoTone that comes in 4 hues, Warm, Cool, Selenium and
Carbon-Sepia. These are designed to be used with the Piezo/R9 plug-in.
Inkjetmall has announced the immanent release of new software that will
entirely end their business connection to R9. Significantly their new
software promises to expand the usable printers for grayscale inks to brands
of printers other than Epson.

When the split occurred Sundance/R9 started doing business under the name
BWGuys.com. They continue to sell the original Sundance/Piezo ink under the
name "Sundance BW Neutral Warm Ink" and introduced a new ink "Sundance BW
Neutral Cool" which has a different chemistry and does not suffer from the
problems noted with the original ink. My understanding is that they have
continued to develop the plug-in which they call "Image Export BW" and that
it has additional paper profiles not in the Piezo plug-in. Sundance/R9 have
also recently released new inks "Septones" based on their new ink chemistry
and new software "Pixel Pixasso) designed to work in the new Epson 7-color
printers. The system uses a black, 3 warm gray inks and 3 cool gray inks
with the software to provide a variable hue printing solution with the ease
of use of the plugin.

If you are still confused I don't blame you!

Martin Wesley