Digital BW, The Print

Does anyone on this list use a duotone formula with colored inks to 
produce selenium-toned black and whites? I would be really interested 
in your experiences and thoughts on this. Please let me know.

Tim

Does anyone on this list use duotones from colored ink to produce 
selenium-toned b/w? I would appreciate hearing from you and what you 
are doing.

Tim

Hi-

I am printing duotones and getting results that are off from the 
monitor image. Monitor is calibrated, papers are profiled. Color files 
look excellent. I don't know much about duotones, but am trying to get 
similar look to toning I had when in traditional darkroom. Using 
Pantone colors in Photoshop 7.  What would make results better? Would I 
be better off using RGB and colorizing in in hue/saturation dialogue 
box?

Thanks for any advice.

Dennis Stein
Digital Imaging
Fine Art Photography
Web Design

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Stein 
<djstein@m...> wrote:

> I am printing duotones and getting results that are off from the 
> monitor image. Monitor is calibrated, papers are profiled. Color 
files 
> look excellent. I don't know much about duotones, but am trying to 
get 
> similar look to toning I had when in traditional darkroom. Using 
> Pantone colors in Photoshop 7.  What would make results better? 
Would I 
> be better off using RGB and colorizing in in hue/saturation 
dialogue 
> box?
> 
> Thanks for any advice.
> 
> Dennis Stein
> Digital Imaging
> Fine Art Photography
> Web Design

Could you be a little more specific?  Is this a SIMULATION of 
a duotone or a real duotone?   

In duotone printing two inks are used, and the images are
printed with different screen angles.  How do you control any
of that with Photoshop?   Photoshop has no control over the
inks - only the printer's driver can do that.  Or are you
creating two output files and printing them via a halftone
screen through a separate product like a RIP?

On Saturday, March 1, 2003, at 11:31  AM, Dennis Stein wrote:

> Hi-
>
> I am printing duotones and getting results that are off from the
> monitor image. Monitor is calibrated, papers are profiled. Color files
> look excellent. I don't know much about duotones, but am trying to get
> similar look to toning I had when in traditional darkroom. Using
> Pantone colors in Photoshop 7.  What would make results better? Would I
> be better off using RGB and colorizing in in hue/saturation dialogue
> box?

duotones  aren't in a space, so I'm not sure they know how to behave 
the way you are hoping, convert your duo or multi tone file (which is a 
gray file with ink curves attached for specific press environments) 
back to your rgb working space, check your soft proof for your specific 
paper/ink combo and go from there. Maybe that'll help.

colorizing in hue/sat can give good results, also levels adjustments in 
RGB, but your results vary with each image, some need the specific 
color mapping of a duotone to achieve the desired contrast, others do 
well with the overall tone a color cast gives from hue/sat...

just thoughts.
Carolyn

> Hi-
>
> I am printing duotones and getting results that are off from the
> monitor image. Monitor is calibrated, papers are profiled. Color files
> look excellent. I don't know much about duotones, but am trying to get
> similar look to toning I had when in traditional darkroom. Using
> Pantone colors in Photoshop 7.  What would make results better? Would I
> be better off using RGB and colorizing in in hue/saturation dialogue
> box?
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
Dennis,

Even though your monitor is calibrated, it does not mean the prints will
come out looking like what you see on screen. You need a printer profile for
the specific ink, paper and printer you are using in order to get a close
match. These can be purchase for a very modest price and will be money well
spent if you want to work with duotones and a full color ink set. However,
keep in mind that the closer the image approaches dead neutral the more
difficult it is to get accurate matches.

Martin Wesley

Sorry I don't have any advice to your problem, but I've been wondering about
Duotones for some time, and now seems like as good an opportunity to bring
it up as any.

What am I missing about the attraction of Duotones on a desktop printer? I
get it as far as on press goes: subtle color complexity adds depth so two
shades of gray are richer than one, three are richer than two, etc. So for
an offset press you are defining how the printer will utilize his two black
ink shades, or three, or four...

But when printing on a color inkjet printer, which has anywhere from 4 to 7
shades of ink to start with, I can't see any reason not to just convert a
grayscale image to RGB and pull a set of curves, where you can put any color
into any tone you want. If you've got a good printer profile you'll have a
pretty good WYSIWYG workflow which gives the driver the RGB data it's
looking for, and you have the full RGB tool set to work with, which is
broader than what is available in Duotone mode.

So it seems to me that if one has a Duotone that they like and they know it
works it might be the easiest way to get there, but once any tweaking needs
to be done I'd personally feel much more comfortable doing it with an
everyday tool like curves than the cumbersome Duotone dialog box.

But is there something I'm missing?

Todd

>> Hi-
>> 
>> I am printing duotones and getting results that are off from the
>> monitor image. Monitor is calibrated, papers are profiled. Color files
>> look excellent. I don't know much about duotones, but am trying to get
>> similar look to toning I had when in traditional darkroom. Using
>> Pantone colors in Photoshop 7.  What would make results better? Would I
>> be better off using RGB and colorizing in in hue/saturation dialogue
>> box?
>> 
>> Thanks for any advice.
>> 
> Dennis,
> 
> Even though your monitor is calibrated, it does not mean the prints will
> come out looking like what you see on screen. You need a printer profile for
> the specific ink, paper and printer you are using in order to get a close
> match. These can be purchase for a very modest price and will be money well
> spent if you want to work with duotones and a full color ink set. However,
> keep in mind that the closer the image approaches dead neutral the more
> difficult it is to get accurate matches.
> 
> Martin Wesley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, TF <tflash@e...>
wrote:
snip...
> But is there something I'm missing?

not a darn stinkin' thing that I can see.
Hi Todd.
If people find creating subtle color effects with duotones an
intuitive way to work, fine. But the whole concept is unrelated to
Epson printing with color inks. Your best bet is to convert the final
file to a really good color profile for your Epson and pray that it
emulates it even remotely, and without metamerism.
Or what you said.
Tyler

> But is there something I'm missing?
> 
> Todd

Yes, Todd...posting to this group more often.

;-)

Thanks Tyler. Good to see you! :-)

Todd

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, TF <tflash@e...>
> wrote:
> snip...
>> But is there something I'm missing?
> 
> not a darn stinkin' thing that I can see.
> Hi Todd.
> If people find creating subtle color effects with duotones an
> intuitive way to work, fine. But the whole concept is unrelated to
> Epson printing with color inks. Your best bet is to convert the final
> file to a really good color profile for your Epson and pray that it
> emulates it even remotely, and without metamerism.
> Or what you said.
> Tyler

>
> What am I missing about the attraction of Duotones on a desktop 
> printer? I
> get it as far as on press goes: subtle color complexity adds depth so 
> two
> shades of gray are richer than one, three are richer than two, etc. So 
> for
> an offset press you are defining how the printer will utilize his two 
> black
> ink shades, or three, or four...

hey Todd... also a way to create color files using fewer inks, less 
expensive runs when that was a consideration... also, using the exact 
ink mixed for certain companies colors etc, instead of process mixes of 
which isn't a precise end result. but you knew that too.

>
>
> But is there something I'm missing?

well, I just wanted to say hi too, but have you ever tinted in a multi 
mode, and then tinted in the rgb space using curves to effect the same 
tone, then compared the contrast of the two approaches?  To me, one 
lends more depth, contrast, due to the way it achieves the toning... 
but could just be me.

Carolyn

Hi Todd,

> I've simply had
> nothing worthwhile to say.

That never stopped me ;-)

Good to see a post by you, even though you TRIED to slip by unnoticed with
just a "TF"...hope all is well.

Austin

>> But is there something I'm missing?
>> 
>> Todd
> 
> Yes, Todd...posting to this group more often.
> 
> ;-)

Hi to you too Austin,

Sadly, my techniques haven't evolved in over a year and I've simply had
nothing worthwhile to say. But with all the new product announcements coming
out I'm sure we'll all have plenty of bitching ahead. ;-)

Be good,

Todd

Hi Carolyn,

This is fun, feel like I just walked into the local pub.

>> 
>> What am I missing about the attraction of Duotones on a desktop
>> printer? I
>> get it as far as on press goes: subtle color complexity adds depth so
>> two
>> shades of gray are richer than one, three are richer than two, etc. So
>> for
>> an offset press you are defining how the printer will utilize his two
>> black
>> ink shades, or three, or four...
> 
> hey Todd... also a way to create color files using fewer inks, less
> expensive runs when that was a consideration... also, using the exact
> ink mixed for certain companies colors etc, instead of process mixes of
> which isn't a precise end result. but you knew that too.

Now I did ;-)

>> But is there something I'm missing?
> 
> well, I just wanted to say hi too, but have you ever tinted in a multi
> mode, and then tinted in the rgb space using curves to effect the same
> tone, then compared the contrast of the two approaches?  To me, one
> lends more depth, contrast, due to the way it achieves the toning...
> but could just be me.

I messed around in those funny modes in the past but I've always done better
in RGB, but it could just be because I'm more comfortable there.

Cheers
Todd

> Hi Carolyn,

Hi Todd...

>
> This is fun, feel like I just walked into the local pub.

;)... missed you on list too. but I'm not buying.

>> but you knew that too.
>
> Now I did ;-)

thought so...

>>
>
> I messed around in those funny modes in the past but I've always done 
> better
> in RGB, but it could just be because I'm more comfortable there.

well, you always do fabulous work, so go with comfy... <g>
...Carolyn

My initial inquiry was to find out what others do when printing duo- or 
tri- tones, and if the process in Photoshop where one can convert to 
duotones, etc. was effective. It sounds like the best way is to convert 
to RGB, or to initially colorize the image and produce an effective 
tone.

Thanks for all the help.

Dennis Stein
Digital Imaging
Fine Art Photography
Web Design