Digital BW, The Print

Can dye sub printers such as kodak 8500 be used for B&W or is it 
better to use an inkjet?
Is there a recommended make/model - from looking at previous posts 
it looks like epson is the preferred supplier. Is this true?

Along with printers how do they compare cost per 10*8, or is it 
better getting prints done at a lab from disk?

Sorry if the questions are dumb, but this is a new venture for me.

Thank you in advance for any help.

Grant

Grant,

the biggest difference with dye subs is that you are obligated to create a 
grayscale with a fixed CMYK set of ribbons.  Thus your highlights will have a 
mix of the 3 primaries, just like any magazine or similar. Despite the dotless 
look of the dye subs, you are not likely to get a very neutral, smooth transition 
across the scale. Also, you will find a much bigger choice of inks for the inkjets 
- Epsons in particular. 

The other big difference, of course, is that there is a much bigger range of 
paper choices for inkjet. However, if you like the glossy look of the dye sub, 
you may have a hard time replicating it with inkjet pigment inks, though dye 
inks would do fine.

With the inkjets, you get a choice of inks  separately for each position (unlike 
the ribbons) and you get to use light and medium grays for your highlights and 
midtones making for  a very smooth, consistent gradation.

It used to be that dye subs had better image stability than early inkjets with 
dye inks. This is no longer the case with the latest pigment inks. Now, the best 
reason for the dye subs is to simulate a cmyk press (albeit without simlulating 
the halftone itself) - or simply because you happen to like the way they do bw, 
which can be a personal taste sort of thing.

Antonis




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "frostyguk" 
<snowyalp@b...> wrote:

> Can dye sub printers such as kodak 8500 be used for B&W or is it 
> better to use an inkjet?
> Is there a recommended make/model - from looking at previous posts 
> it looks like epson is the preferred supplier. Is this true?
> 
> Along with printers how do they compare cost per 10*8, or is it 
> better getting prints done at a lab from disk?
> 
> Sorry if the questions are dumb, but this is a new venture for me.
> 
> Thank you in advance for any help.
> 
> Grant

Grant-

I'm not familiar with the 8500 but the 8660 and 8650 both have BLACK 
ribbon sets. The produce very cold prints. They will make an 8x10 in 
about 60 seconds which is a huge time savings...the papers come in 2 
flavors...glossy and semi-matte. The quality is pretty good.

The inkjets, as Antonis points out, have a lot more flexibility (and 
complexity). That may sound ironic since they cost a lot less but 
that is the price of choices.

If you were only to get one, it probably should be an inkjet...and 
the support group here is better than the manufacturers in any event.

cheers,

tom

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "frostyguk" 
<snowyalp@b...> wrote:

> Can dye sub printers such as kodak 8500 be used for B&W or is it 
> better to use an inkjet?
> Is there a recommended make/model - from looking at previous posts 
> it looks like epson is the preferred supplier. Is this true?
> 
> Along with printers how do they compare cost per 10*8, or is it 
> better getting prints done at a lab from disk?
> 
> Sorry if the questions are dumb, but this is a new venture for me.
> 
> Thank you in advance for any help.
> 
> Grant

I would avoid the Kodak 8000 series at all costs.  I had two of them 
and they were absolute maintenance nightmares.  Heating coil was 
always going out and had constant alignment issues.  The Kodak 
service-rep was at the studio at least once per month and in many 
cases more often.  Many who have owned them think that it is possible 
that they are possessed and need a good excersism.

Duncan


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom OConnell" 
<TomOC@s...> wrote:
> Grant-
> 
> I'm not familiar with the 8500 but the 8660 and 8650 both have 
BLACK 
> ribbon sets. The produce very cold prints. They will make an 8x10 
in 
> about 60 seconds which is a huge time savings...the papers come in 
2 
> flavors...glossy and semi-matte. The quality is pretty good.
> 
> The inkjets, as Antonis points out, have a lot more flexibility 
(and 
> complexity). That may sound ironic since they cost a lot less but 
> that is the price of choices.
> 
> If you were only to get one, it probably should be an inkjet...and 
> the support group here is better than the manufacturers in any 
event.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> tom
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "frostyguk" 
> <snowyalp@b...> wrote:
> > Can dye sub printers such as kodak 8500 be used for B&W or is it 
> > better to use an inkjet?
> > Is there a recommended make/model - from looking at previous 
posts 

> > it looks like epson is the preferred supplier. Is this true?
> > 
> > Along with printers how do they compare cost per 10*8, or is it 
> > better getting prints done at a lab from disk?
> > 
> > Sorry if the questions are dumb, but this is a new venture for me.
> > 
> > Thank you in advance for any help.
> > 
> > Grant

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Duncan 
Staples" <gdstaples@y...> wrote:
  Many who have owned them think that it is possible 
> that they are possessed and need a good excersism.
> 
> Duncan

Hmmm... I've been tossing around the idea of a career change of 
late... I'll bet one could make a living as an "Exorcist of demonic 
printer spirits", there certainly are enough of them around.. I just 
had one lodge in my 1-year-old 1280 and it is producing permanent 
full time micro-banding in spite of perfect nozzle checks. I guess 
its time to cash in that Compusa ext. warranty and get a new one.  
> 
Steve Karafyllakis

And the warranty will set you FREE !!!!!

:-)~

Duncan


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven 
Karafyllakis" <steve@s...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Duncan 
> Staples" <gdstaples@y...> wrote:
>   Many who have owned them think that it is possible 
> > that they are possessed and need a good excersism.
> > 
> > Duncan
> 
> Hmmm... I've been tossing around the idea of a career change of 
> late... I'll bet one could make a living as an "Exorcist of demonic 
> printer spirits", there certainly are enough of them around.. I 
just 

> had one lodge in my 1-year-old 1280 and it is producing permanent 
> full time micro-banding in spite of perfect nozzle checks. I guess 
> its time to cash in that Compusa ext. warranty and get a new one.  
> > 
> Steve Karafyllakis

Thanks for peoples replies. The answer seems to be pointing me to an 
epson inkjet and model 1280 or I assume 1290 (?) seems to be the 
preferred model.
I assume that if going down the B&W route it needs to be permantly 
set up for B&W and not swapped out for colour - i.e. keep the two on 
separate printers?

Also the pigment based inks mentioned and which paper? Also are 
these available in england or will they need to be ordered from the 
US?

thanks again for everyone's input and putting up with so many 
questions!!

Grant

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "frostyguk" 
<snowyalp@b...> wrote:
> Thanks for peoples replies. The answer seems to be pointing me to 
an 
> epson inkjet and model 1280 or I assume 1290 (?) seems to be the 
> preferred model.
> I assume that if going down the B&W route it needs to be permantly 
> set up for B&W and not swapped out for colour - i.e. keep the two 
on 
> separate printers?
> 
> Also the pigment based inks mentioned and which paper? Also are 
> these available in england or will they need to be ordered from the 
> US?
> 
> thanks again for everyone's input and putting up with so many 
> questions!!
> 
> Grant

Grant,

For papers I suggest Epson Archival Matt (Epson Enhanced Matt is the 
renamed paper in the US) for quality output to start with but 
Hahnemuhle (spelling!) Photorag as an up market, and priced, paper.  
In the UK www.silverprint.co.uk (Near Waterloo Station.)was the 
cheapest source last time I checked, and they also sell Epson paper 
if I recall.  

Paul Roark is convincing me that I will be happy with my Epson 1160 
and ultratones using his new curves.  1160s are unavailable in the US 
but www.dabs.com claims to have 320 available at GBP225.60 vs 304.32 
for the 1290S (prices inc VAT).  There is the saving here and on a 
bulk feed system if you go that route.  If money isn't tight I would 
be tempted to spend the extra on the 1290.  

Just suggestions for further thought.

Colin

A Brit in Greece