Digital BW, The Print

Is this the best way to go or are there other equally valid options? 
It all seems a little bewildering!!

I have no "conventional" darkroom experience - would you still 
recommend getting some or is going digital from the start just as 
valid?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Grant

Grant,

it's bewildering allright!...   

Darkroom experience helps in judging print quality but is not necessary. The 
best advice is to start with whatever costs less and is easiest to get and set up. 
Once you've made some prints you will be able to navigate the informational  
tangle a bit better.

Start by picking up a software package - or RGB workflow - you are 
comfortable with and then get a printer that it supports. To get better advice 
here you may want to say if you already have a printer and if you expect to be 
using it for color too. Also what platform you expect to work in, etc.

For the record, "Piezotone" is a brand name for the inks sold by Inkjetmall and 
doesn't imply a whole system (as Piezography did when it was introduced a 
few years back). At present, users pick and choose software, inks, papers and 
printers without relying on a single prepackaged solution.

Antonis




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "frostyguk" 
<snowyalp@b...> wrote:

> Is this the best way to go or are there other equally valid options? 
> It all seems a little bewildering!!
> 
> I have no "conventional" darkroom experience - would you still 
> recommend getting some or is going digital from the start just as 
> valid?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice.
> 
> Grant

Hello Grant,

> Is this the best way to go or are there other equally valid
options?  It all seems a little bewildering!!
 
"Bewildering" is a good way to describe it.  In broad terms there are
two facets to BW printing.  One is what printer/ink/software to use
and how to use it, the other is the PhotoShop skills necessary to
produce good results.

The first part is difficult because each system is an expensive
investment and you can't know if it's "right" for you until after
trying it.  It's hard for anyone to make a recommendation because all
the approaches have their strengths and weaknesses, with often
overlapping considerations: cost, ease of use, operating system
limitations, stability of the inks, visual appearance, etc.

One approach, which I recommend, is to begin with Black-Only printing
(BO) on one of the smaller inexpensive printers for which MIS ink
cartridges are available.  It's easy and relatively inexpensive, and a
good way to get started while deciding on which of the other systems
to use.  I'm confident in saying that after six months of making BO
prints and keeping up in this forum, your knowledge will have
increased exponentially, and any decision will be made with some
real-world experience and wisdom.  In the meantime, you will be
developing your PhotoShop skills and gaining invaluable knowledge and
experience on that side of things.  It will not be wasted time or
effort.

The BO technique is explained in detail in a series of articles on my
web site (see link below).  Good luck and welcome to the forum.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Thanks for the information and the web pages - very interesting.

To set the scene;
I currently don't have an appropriate printer, I run WinXP with 
Photoshop 7 - though this is also an interesting learning 
experience!! And use 35mm Digital SLR.
I am still confused as to wether I am better getting an Epson 1160 
or the 1290!! Seems the 1160 is tried and tested while the 1290 has 
some other advantages!!

Going with your previous advice of BO printing with the option to 
expand at a later date would you have a preference or recommendation?

thanks again for your input, this also goes to others who have 
helped.

Grant Frost

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" 
<cj@c...> wrote:
> Hello Grant,
> 
> > Is this the best way to go or are there other equally valid
> options?  It all seems a little bewildering!!
>  
> "Bewildering" is a good way to describe it.  In broad terms there 
are
> two facets to BW printing.  One is what printer/ink/software to use
> and how to use it, the other is the PhotoShop skills necessary to
> produce good results.
> 
> The first part is difficult because each system is an expensive
> investment and you can't know if it's "right" for you until after
> trying it.  It's hard for anyone to make a recommendation because 
all
> the approaches have their strengths and weaknesses, with often
> overlapping considerations: cost, ease of use, operating system
> limitations, stability of the inks, visual appearance, etc.
> 
> One approach, which I recommend, is to begin with Black-Only 
printing
> (BO) on one of the smaller inexpensive printers for which MIS ink
> cartridges are available.  It's easy and relatively inexpensive, 
and a
> good way to get started while deciding on which of the other 
systems
> to use.  I'm confident in saying that after six months of making BO
> prints and keeping up in this forum, your knowledge will have
> increased exponentially, and any decision will be made with some
> real-world experience and wisdom.  In the meantime, you will be
> developing your PhotoShop skills and gaining invaluable knowledge 
and
> experience on that side of things.  It will not be wasted time or
> effort.
> 
> The BO technique is explained in detail in a series of articles on 
my

> web site (see link below).  Good luck and welcome to the forum.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Hello Grant,

> To set the scene;
> I currently don't have an appropriate printer, I run WinXP with 
> Photoshop 7 - though this is also an interesting learning 
> experience!! And use 35mm Digital SLR.
> I am still confused as to wether I am better getting an Epson 1160 
> or the 1290!! Seems the 1160 is tried and tested while the 1290 has 
> some other advantages!!
> 
> Going with your previous advice of BO printing with the option to 
> expand at a later date would you have a preference or
recommendation?

Well, hard to recommend something for someone else.   Problem with
buying the bigger printer now is that some ink/CIS/software systems
are available for the 1160/1280 but not for the 2200, and vice versa.
 What if you buy one and a few months later, knowing more, decide you
really want the other?  Plus, things are changing rapidly.  By this
fall when you understand the various systems better there may be
something new that changes the whole equation (such as empty carts or
R9 system for the 2200  - either of those are possible and would open
up avenues that aren't available now).

My main point was to get started as easily and inexpensively as
possible and build up your experience for a few months until you know
enough to make an educated decision on the more expensive hardware. 
I'd recommend one of the smaller letter size models (the new 980 is
under $200, or find a factory refurb - I'm using a refurb 870 and it's
great).  When you reach the point where you know which way you want to
go, the smaller printer can be put back into color service or reserved
for small jobs or something.

As for 1160 vs 1280, the 1160 is 4-ink, unchipped carts, and larger
droplets.  The 1280 is 6-ink, chipped carts, variable droplets and
1440 dpi.  Paul Roark said recently that the 1160 was easier to switch
different inks, but the 1280 produced better results.  So, depending
on what you want to do...

There are many choices and it's hard to decide without understanding
them.  It takes a while for it all to sink in.

Bottom line is you either want to make an uninformed choice now and
take a chance, or wait until you know more about it.  If you decide to
wait, then the next choice is either to do no actual printing during
the wait period and just read up and educate yourself until you know
what you want, or you can do some BO printing on an inexpensive
printer while you're waiting and be adding actual experience to the
equation, and building up your Photoshop skills as well.  IMO, you
will learn an enormous amount that can't be equaled by any amount of
study, and you will have a lot more confidence when you make the final
decision.  I hope this helps.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" 
<cj@c...> wrote:
> Hello Grant,
> 
> > To set the scene;
> > I currently don't have an appropriate printer, I run WinXP with 
> > Photoshop 7 - though this is also an interesting learning 
> > experience!! And use 35mm Digital SLR.
> > I am still confused as to wether I am better getting an Epson 
1160 
> > or the 1290!! Seems the 1160 is tried and tested while the 1290 
has 
> > some other advantages!!
> > 
> > Going with your previous advice of BO printing with the option to 
> > expand at a later date would you have a preference or
> recommendation?
> 
> Well, hard to recommend something for someone else.   Problem with
> buying the bigger printer now is that some ink/CIS/software systems
> are available for the 1160/1280 but not for the 2200, and vice 
versa.
>  What if you buy one and a few months later, knowing more, decide 
you
> really want the other?  Plus, things are changing rapidly.  By this
> fall when you understand the various systems better there may be
> something new that changes the whole equation (such as empty carts 
or
> R9 system for the 2200  - either of those are possible and would 
open
> up avenues that aren't available now).
> 
> My main point was to get started as easily and inexpensively as
> possible and build up your experience for a few months until you 
know
> enough to make an educated decision on the more expensive hardware. 
> I'd recommend one of the smaller letter size models (the new 980 is
> under $200, or find a factory refurb - I'm using a refurb 870 and 
it's
> great).  When you reach the point where you know which way you want 
to
> go, the smaller printer can be put back into color service or 
reserved
> for small jobs or something.
> 
> As for 1160 vs 1280, the 1160 is 4-ink, unchipped carts, and larger
> droplets.  The 1280 is 6-ink, chipped carts, variable droplets and
> 1440 dpi.  Paul Roark said recently that the 1160 was easier to 
switch
> different inks, but the 1280 produced better results.  So, depending
> on what you want to do...
> 
> There are many choices and it's hard to decide without understanding
> them.  It takes a while for it all to sink in.
> 
> Bottom line is you either want to make an uninformed choice now and
> take a chance, or wait until you know more about it.  If you decide 
to
> wait, then the next choice is either to do no actual printing during
> the wait period and just read up and educate yourself until you know
> what you want, or you can do some BO printing on an inexpensive
> printer while you're waiting and be adding actual experience to the
> equation, and building up your Photoshop skills as well.  IMO, you
> will learn an enormous amount that can't be equaled by any amount of
> study, and you will have a lot more confidence when you make the 
final
> decision.  I hope this helps.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Clayton is offering excellent advice, and I would second the idea of 
getting a refurb 980 (they're hard to find new). My first printer was 
a 980 and I learned a ton using it. I just bought a cheap 1520 to use 
as a second 'learning tool' using a larger 13" wide format with the 
new MIS u.t. inks, and after I wear it out practicing, I hope I'll be 
ready to invest in a decent machine, rather than spending a ton of 
money now on a decent printer, and wearing it out making mistakes. I 
have learned a ton following this list also. M.R.