Digital BW, The Print

Nelson,
     Since you seem to be a serious person and are computer literate, my suggestion is to buy an Epson 2200. That printer is state of the art, can print up to 13X19 and uses archival pigment inks that have a life of 75 years or more. It produces color prints that are better than darkroom made prints. However, the downside is the black and white. Out of the box, the prints when correct in tungsten light appear very slightly green in daylight. And if correct in daylight, look very slightly magenta in tungsten. This is called metamerism. There are various cures for this problem. The best is some software called a RIP. It takes certain colors out of the printing mix to produce a virtually neutral print.. It is here that you need some computer knowledge. You can get a RIP free online from Roy Harrington and he will talk you through the installation. There also is a Yahoo group for the 2200 that is growing all the time. There are a lot of people there with a lot of knowledg
e. Many are people in the professional imaging world. Anyway, fi you want the best, get a 2200. Nothing that I am aware of can match the print longevity of it. Retail price of this printer is $699. By the way. It uses 7 inks to produce a fuller range of colors. The individual inks are available for $9.00 each. It will also print on almost anything from canvas to watercolor paper.

Regards,
Russ Martin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Russ and Antonis,

Thanks for the reply.

I believe I'm familiar with the RIP technology. I used to work for a
newspaper and we had Postcript RIPs do drive the imagesetters. Are we
talking about the same stuff here? Something to rasterize the image? SO,
what you do is you switch off the internal RIP of the printer and use an
external "unit", like the one you mentioned. Did I get it right?

Russ, you said something in your message that I really didn't know: is the
printer longevity really 75 years or more?

My main source of information about printers and hi-fi reproduction was, so
far, the drycreekphoto web site. I was talking with MR Ethan, the owner, and
he pointed me to a few articles in the web that say the Inkjets were tested
to last 10 or 12 years, much less than a silver halide printing like the one
you get from a Fuji Frontier. The Frontier prints would last 70 or 75 years.

Mr Ethan also told me about the wider color gamut of the inkjets when
compared to a Frontier or Noritsu. I didn't pay attention until the day I
had to print a very saturated orange symbol (a brand) and the Frontier could
not get the color right, no matter how carefull I was with the profile and
other things.

But I always believed this matter to be a trade off. You get better quality
with inkjest and loose the longevity of the silver halide.

Now you give me this information that really change things. IS the longevity
obtanied with the standart inks? Or do I have to buy some special ink from
another company?

Again, thanks for your help.

You were very kind.

Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: mfaphoto@... [mailto:mfaphoto@optonline.net] 
Sent: domingo, 27 de julho de 2003 09:54
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Printer advice for a new member of the list


Nelson,
     Since you seem to be a serious person and are computer literate, my
suggestion is to buy an Epson 2200. That printer is state of the art, can
print up to 13X19 and uses archival pigment inks that have a life of 75
years or more. It produces color prints that are better than darkroom made
prints. However, the downside is the black and white. Out of the box, the
prints when correct in tungsten light appear very slightly green in
daylight. And if correct in daylight, look very slightly magenta in
tungsten. This is called metamerism. There are various cures for this
problem. The best is some software called a RIP. It takes certain colors out
of the printing mix to produce a virtually neutral print.. It is here that
you need some computer knowledge. You can get a RIP free online from Roy
Harrington and he will talk you through the installation. There also is a
Yahoo group for the 2200 that is growing all the time. There are a lot of
people there with a lot of knowledg e. Many are people in the professional
imaging world. Anyway, fi you want the best, get a 2200. Nothing that I am
aware of can match the print longevity of it. Retail price of this printer
is $699. By the way. It uses 7 inks to produce a fuller range of colors. The
individual inks are available for $9.00 each. It will also print on almost
anything from canvas to watercolor paper.

Regards,
Russ Martin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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> Russ, you said something in your message that I really didn't know: is the
> printer longevity really 75 years or more?

You'll be lucky if your printer lasts more than 7 years but the prints are
rated against fading for 75 yrs <g>.

Most inkjet printers come with dye inks, with prints rated to last anywhere
from 2 weeks to 25 years. The 2200 uses Epson's Ultrachrome ink, which is an
"encapsulated" pigment ink. The Ultrachrome ink prints are rated to last
40-75 years & beyond. In both cases, dye & pigment, it depends greatly on
which paper you choose.

For dye inks think vegetables, for pigment inks think tiny little rocks...

I use an Epson 1160, MIS FSN ink with Eboni black, and the R9 (Piezography)
plug-in. Because this pigment ink is non-encapsulated, the prints are rated
for light fastness for up to 100 years or more, again depending on the
paper.

Check MIS's website for a wealth of information - http://www.inksupply.com -
the quadtone section deals with B&W printing.

good luck
-BK

Thanks Barry. Very good web site. Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Kelsall [mailto:bktimes@...] 
Sent: domingo, 27 de julho de 2003 15:58
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Printer advice for a new member of the list


> Russ, you said something in your message that I really didn't know: is

> the printer longevity really 75 years or more?

You'll be lucky if your printer lasts more than 7 years but the prints
are rated against fading for 75 yrs <g>.

Most inkjet printers come with dye inks, with prints rated to last
anywhere from 2 weeks to 25 years. The 2200 uses Epson's Ultrachrome
ink, which is an "encapsulated" pigment ink. The Ultrachrome ink prints
are rated to last 40-75 years & beyond. In both cases, dye & pigment, it
depends greatly on which paper you choose.

For dye inks think vegetables, for pigment inks think tiny little
rocks...

I use an Epson 1160, MIS FSN ink with Eboni black, and the R9
(Piezography) plug-in. Because this pigment ink is non-encapsulated, the
prints are rated for light fastness for up to 100 years or more, again
depending on the paper.

Check MIS's website for a wealth of information -
http://www.inksupply.com - the quadtone section deals with B&W printing.

good luck
-BK




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
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Nelson,
     Barry answered your question better than I. However, I haven't seen anything published that said less than 75years. It all depends on so many variables though. Paper, humidity, display/storage conditions, etc. Everything published is based on accelerated aging tests using lights at certain distances and intensities 24/7. These tests, though standard in the industry, may not replicate actual conditions. Still, for comparing one print to another they give some basis for making judgements.

Russ


----- Original Message -----
From: Nelson Ricciardi <nelson_@...>
Date: Sunday, July 27, 2003 3:11 pm
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Printer advice for a new member of the list

> Thanks Barry. Very good web site. Thank you.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barry Kelsall [bktimes@...] 
> Sent: domingo, 27 de julho de 2003 15:58
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Printer advice for a new member of the list
> 

> 
> > Russ, you said something in your message that I really didn't 
> know: is
> 
> > the printer longevity really 75 years or more?
> 
> You'll be lucky if your printer lasts more than 7 years but the prints
> are rated against fading for 75 yrs <g>.
> 
> Most inkjet printers come with dye inks, with prints rated to last
> anywhere from 2 weeks to 25 years. The 2200 uses Epson's Ultrachrome
> ink, which is an "encapsulated" pigment ink. The Ultrachrome ink 
> printsare rated to last 40-75 years & beyond. In both cases, dye & 
> pigment, it
> depends greatly on which paper you choose.
> 
> For dye inks think vegetables, for pigment inks think tiny little
> rocks...
> 
> I use an Epson 1160, MIS FSN ink with Eboni black, and the R9
> (Piezography) plug-in. Because this pigment ink is non-
> encapsulated, the
> prints are rated for light fastness for up to 100 years or more, again
> depending on the paper.
> 
> Check MIS's website for a wealth of information -
> http://www.i
nksupply.com - the quadtone section deals with B&W 
> printing.
> good luck
> -BK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
> Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
> wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
> same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
> variousresources on the homepa
ge. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
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> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
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> 
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> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
> wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 

> visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
> to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
> header.- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
> or flames
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> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
> various resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
>