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Chips AhoY!

Chips AhoY!

2003-07-28 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

More bad news for users of alternative inks....

"____ was at a Microchip seminar and as usually
happens at those kind of seminars, Microchip was going on about their
new chips. One they mentioned was actually a pair of chips which
implemented an encrypted handshake. Microchip calls these chips part of
the KeyLock technology. The Microchip representative mentioned that they
were supplying HP with the new chips for use in their printer cartridges,"




-- 



"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/

"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together
guys"

Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-29 by Peter Nelson

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Alan Zinn 


> Seems to me that the government will see this as a
> restraint of trade issue.  I don't think a company
> would be so short-sighted, but then look at the
> antics of the DVD interests.

The legal definition of "restraint of trade" involves an agreement 
between two or more parties.  (The two parties COULD be a supplier 
and a retailer).  Virtually all the case law relating to restraint 
of trade involves anti-trust cases.   If HP or Epson inked coerced a 
retailer into ONLY carrying its brand of printers THAT would be 
restraint of trade because it involves an agreement between two 
parties - the printer company and the retailer.

A product manufacturer is under no obligation to make it easy for 
other companies to interface to his product.   Microsoft does not 
have to supply an API to its software products, or if they DO supply 
an API they are under no obligation to expose all possible behaviors 
or interfaces. 

Politically, I'm pretty conservative.  One tenet of conservatism is 
that governments should not be in the business of running private 
companies or telling companies how to run their businesses.  When 
governments mandate business decisions it's called socialism.  In 
Europe, where they do things like that routinely, their GDP growth 
rate is lower and their unemployment rate is DRAMATICALLY higher 
than here in the US. 

The whole question of chipped cartridges should be left to the free 
market.   How well do you think Ford cars would sell if you could 
only use Ford gas in them?   If consumers don't like buying printers 
with chipped cartridges they will vote with their wallets and buy 
some other brand.    There are a LOT of printer companies in the 
world.  My guess is that this is a non-issue for 99.9% of users and 
that we're trying to get GOVERNMENT to provide us with what we want 
because we can't get the market to do it.   To me that's socialism.

Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-29 by Alan Zinn

At 08:35 PM 7/27/03 -0400, you wrote:
>More bad news for users of alternative inks....
>
>"____ was at a Microchip seminar and as usually
>happens at those kind of seminars, Microchip was going on about their
>new chips. One they mentioned was actually a pair of chips which
>implemented an encrypted handshake. Microchip calls these chips part of
>the KeyLock technology. The Microchip representative mentioned that they
>were supplying HP with the new chips for use in their printer cartridges,"
>
>



Guy,

Seems to me that the government will see this as a restraint of trade 
issue.  I don't think a company would be so short-sighted, but then look at 
the antics of the DVD interests.

AZ

Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-29 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Peter Nelson wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Alan Zinn 
>
>
>  
>
>>Seems to me that the government will see this as a
>>restraint of trade issue.  I don't think a company
>>would be so short-sighted, but then look at the
>>antics of the DVD interests.
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>A product manufacturer is under no obligation to make it easy for 
>other companies to interface to his product.   Microsoft does not 
>have to supply an API to its software products, or if they DO supply 
>an API they are under no obligation to expose all possible behaviors 
>or interfaces. 
>  
>
That's a VERY different kettle of fish from undertaking blatant efforts 
designed to effect no other goal than: making the ability to use 
alternative consumables either nearly literally impossible (handshaking 
encrypted chips) or so high, as to create an unfair restraint of trade 
.  Imagine INtel designing a chip, that didn't just optimize Windows 
related instructions sets, but if it saw non-windows OS code, it would 
shut itself down, thereby preventing the use of any other OS.. That 
would clearly be a restraint of trade and even Intel knows it (and M$ 
has learned at least that much, the HARD way)..

In such cases, in a marketplace where the product is no longer a niche 
product, look at the legal cases involving Xerox et. al. and consumables 
or some automobile replacement parts manufacture,  you have what is 
called more exactly "illegal vertical tying." 

Didn't you lose this argument already, back at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/26305



I'm a Republican myself, but under the current RIDICULOUSLY, "anything 
goes in business as long as US companies are printing cash for owners 
and shareholders marketplace," where things like the  FCC proposing to 
allow more consolidation of media ownership, and the White House 
threatening to veto appropriations legislation from both (Republican 
controlled I might add) houses of Congress that would prevent the FCC 
from implementing such ludicrously anti-democratic policies - in such an 
environment HP and Lexmark et al believe they can do "as they will" to 
restrain trade..

Implementing a scheme like this, or Lexmark's patented cartridge that 
destroys itself when ink runs low,  may just tip the balance though..  
The manufacturers need to remember it isn't only the Feds that can cost 
you lots of $$ in anti-trust litigation.  Ask M$ about the State 
Attorneys General..  ;-)  

In some sense I hope HP does go ahead with this lunacy.  Given the 
number of HP printers in gov't offices, and the ubiquity of inkjets in 
the marketplace, a showdown would definitely be brewing.. When tying is 
allowed in a market segment, historically, there have been one or two 
parties who "take the game too far" and end up generating litigation 
that overturns the entire set of practices in that market segment.. In 
this case HP and Lexmark seem hell bent on doing so.. All I can say is 
they must REALLY NEED short term profit to risk such a bold-faced cash 
grab.     Once this all ends up in a US court, I'd bet dollars to donuts 
that the whole "chipped-cartridges to enable cost-shifting" game will be 
effectively over...  HP and Lexmark are showing unrestrained greed here, 
along with utilizing every practical avenue to tie the original product 
and its consumable feed pipeline. Whatever the White House may think 
will make little difference if this ends up in the courts..

Not to mention that the EU legislation specifically prohibiting such 
practices in printers comes into effect in about 18 months.. ;-)  (If I 
remember correctly) Thereby preventing HP from even selling any of these 
encrypted printers in the EU..

Peter, I believe wholeheartedly in free-trade and an open-market.   
However, it is plain and simple blindness to think that allowing OEMs to 
utilize their $ and market position to BY DESIGN add product features 
that have NO OTHER rational goal than to prevent the entry of 3rd party 
suppliers into the consumable feed stream is about as blatant an example 
of restraint of trade as one can technologically concoct.  We aren't 
talking about not making it easy for others to interface with a product, 
we are talking about designs effectuated in attempts to make it 
impossible.. It's the same philosophical difference (moral questions 
aside) we see in say, criminal law, between accidentally shooting a 
third part when defending yourself or a removing the uterus of a 
pregnant woman with aggressive uterine cancer thereby terminating a 
fetus (both would be unintended consequences, with the second, perhaps, 
more unavoidable) when compare to randomly purposely shooting a third 
party to demonstrate your pique during an argument with another party or 
purposely aborting the same fetus to effectuate effective "birth 
control."   For those who see no ethical or real difference, or unable 
to parse the difference, between the first set of instances and the 
second: I feel sorry for you and hope you NEVER end up on the judicial 
bench anywhere (except perhaps somewhere like Saudi Arabia or Iran, 
where Justice is eminently simplistic)..

  
  

 

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-29 by Loring Palleske

is it?

I guess if you average all the countries (including spain and portugal) 
over there perhaps. I think Germany though may be a different story.

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 10:46  AM, Peter Nelson wrote:

> their unemployment rate is DRAMATICALLY higher
> than here in the US.
Regards,

Loring Palleske
Creative Imaging
  905.441.2661

Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-29 by Julian Thomas

and check the distribution of wealth patterns, poverty levels, especially in
the Scandinavian countries
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Loring Palleske" <lorpal@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!


> is it?
>
> I guess if you average all the countries (including spain and portugal)
> over there perhaps. I think Germany though may be a different story.
>
> On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 10:46  AM, Peter Nelson wrote:
>
> > their unemployment rate is DRAMATICALLY higher
> > than here in the US.
> Regards,
>
> Loring Palleske
> Creative Imaging
>   905.441.2661
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
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page.
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Show quoted textHide quoted text
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Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-29 by Peter Nelson

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. 
Image Service" <editor@p...> wrote:

> HP and Lexmark are showing unrestrained greed here, 

It's not unrestrained.  It's restrained by the marketplace.  If 
consumers don't like it they won't buy their products.  That's how 
it's supposed to work.

No printer maker has anything even CLOSE to a monopoly, so no 
printer maker can afford to adopt a product or pricing policy that 
would alienate potential customers.

I'm tired of people saying "I'm a Republican, BUT ..."  You either 
believe in the power of the market to regulate business decisions or 
not.  I DO believe in the market, or at least I have more faith in 
the market than I do in government bureaucrats.

You're advocating what Ted Kennedy does: using the power of the 
government to advance YOUR special interests (third-party inks).

I am NOT making this up:   As we speak Ted Kennedy is proposing 
legislation in the Senate to ban a private wind-turbine farm off the 
coast of Cape Cod because it will ruin the view from his Hyannis 
beach estate.   That's the same thing YOU'RE doing.

Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-29 by Peter Nelson

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Loring Palleske 
<lorpal@m...> wrote:
> is it?
> 
> I guess if you average all the countries (including spain and 
portugal) 
> over there perhaps. I think Germany though may be a different 
story.

Current issue of The Economist - Germany's GDP last quarter is 
NEGATIVE.

Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-29 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Peter Nelson wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. 
>Image Service" <editor@p...> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>HP and Lexmark are showing unrestrained greed here, 
>>    
>>
>
>It's not unrestrained.  It's restrained by the marketplace.  If 
>consumers don't like it they won't buy their products.  That's how 
>it's supposed to work.
>  
>
By that argument, even MONOPOLY is restrained.. Give it a break..

>No printer maker has anything even CLOSE to a monopoly, so no 
>printer maker can afford to adopt a product or pricing policy that 
>would alienate potential customers.
>  
>
Read my lips. MONOPOLY, in the direct sense, has almost NOTHING to do 
with illegal tying , and in this case literally nothing.. Stop blurring 
issues to try and confuse readers.

>I'm tired of people saying "I'm a Republican, BUT ..."
>
Guess you might as well fire most of the Republican officeholders.. I 
guess I won't be expecting YOUR contribution check in my current 
campaign for NJ State Assembly (the NJ State House of Reps) anytime soon..

>  You either 
>believe in the power of the market to regulate business decisions or 
>not.  I DO believe in the market, or at least I have more faith in 
>the market than I do in government bureaucrats.
>  
>
Talk about "close-minded".. I suppose you would argue that we should 
still use contributory negligence as a complete defense too.. Don't want 
railroads having their economic choices hindered by stupid people who 
get run over by trains or who injure themselves climbing aboard a 
railroad car..

>You're advocating what Ted Kennedy does: using the power of the 
>government to advance YOUR special interests (third-party inks).
>
>I am NOT making this up:   As we speak Ted Kennedy is proposing 
>legislation in the Senate to ban a private wind-turbine farm off the 
>coast of Cape Cod because it will ruin the view from his Hyannis 
>beach estate.   That's the same thing YOU'RE doing.
>
>  
>
Guess what...

1)    I really don't give a hoot whether it is made up or not...

2)   I DISAGREE WITH THE KENNEDY POSITION.

3)    Actually, it would probably COST me money if tying by chipping is 
prevented.. The initial purchase costs of printers will go up, OEMs will 
compete with 3rd parties to supply inks, and the costs of my 3rd party 
inks could increase - with more OEMS offering more ink options, as would 
be likely, some of my preferred 3rd party manufacturers might go out of 
business. .  Right now, I actually benefit from cheap up-front printer 
costs and cheap 3rd part consumables..

However, the market isn't about simply getting the most money possible 
into the hands of individual capital holders/investors.  The purpose of 
a free market is that it benefits everyone more generally. That means 
tweaks like prohibiting practices that create unfair entry barriers to 
innovation and competition.

In the end though, this forum is about inkjets and B&W printing 
thereof... But every time this issue comes up Peter, you digress, ad 
nauseum I might add, from a broad-based defense of  actions related to 
inkjets into a comparison of general economic models and advocacy for a 
seemingly pure laissez-faire capitalist model (I'll stay away from puns 
about how given your Black and white - with no shades of grade political 
views, I'd expect all your B&W prints to be ultra high contrast, or how 
your greyscale step-wedge must have only two steps: "black and white,"  
etc.) .. I'm sorry, but how the CURRENT law and precedent relates to 
inkjet consumables is on-topic, sometimes just barely so.. But, IMHO, 
and that of MANYothers here, discussions of theoretical ecnomics and 
what the proper economic model might be is OFF TOPIC.

I ,and others I'm certain, would sincerely prefer that if you want to 
argue economic and political theory, it be done on another list..

 

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-29 by Loring Palleske

And the US has higher unemployment now than it ever has since the  
depression.

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 02:22  PM, Peter Nelson wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Loring Palleske
> <lorpal@m...> wrote:
>> is it?
>>
>> I guess if you average all the countries (including spain and
> portugal)
>> over there perhaps. I think Germany though may be a different
> story.
>
> Current issue of The Economist - Germany's GDP last quarter is
> NEGATIVE.
>
>
>
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls  
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
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> this same page.
>
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> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject  
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> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the  
> various resources on the homepage.
>
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>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Regards,

Loring Palleske
Creative Imaging
  905.441.2661

Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-29 by Peter Nelson

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Loring Palleske 
<lorpal@m...> wrote:
> And the US has higher unemployment now than it ever has since the  
> depression.

You're out of your mind.  US unemployment now is 6.4% (source BLS) 
It was 11% % in the 1982 and over 8% on 1993 and 1949 and n9% in 
1979.  We've had BOOM periods with higher unemployment that this!

Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-29 by Peter Nelson

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. 
Image Service" <editor@p...> wrote:

> In the end though, this forum is about inkjets and B&W printing 
> thereof... But every time this issue comes up Peter, you digress,

Complain to Alan Zinn - he was the one who introduced the political 
angle:

# Seems to me that the government will see this as a 
# restraint of trade issue. I don't think a company 
# would be so short-sighted, but then look at the
# antics of the DVD interests.

I just responded to it.

Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-29 by knightmaer35@aol.com

I wish I could cite sources, didn't think I would need to remember them at 
the time I was reading. But I have read that currently we have a greater number 
of those who have fallen off the official unemployment rolls. More people who 
have been unemployed long enough to have exhausted their benefits, even those 
who have grabbed part time work because they couldn't find permanent. No, 
those part time workers in those cases aren't unemployed but they would be in the 
full time workforce if the jobs were available. The articles I read mentioned 
some other factors too that "hid" some people from the formal statistics. I 
just thought it was interesting that the published unemployment rate didn't tell 
the whole story.

Not to be argumentative, but perhaps "out of your mind" is a little strong?

A commercial freelance photographer whose market dries up might be out of 
work til the savings are depleted and then take a part time job at Barnes and 
Noble and never make a blip in the unemployment stats.

Karen 

In a message dated 7/29/03 12:33:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
peter@... writes:


> You're out of your mind.  US unemployment now is 6.4% (source BLS) 
> It was 11% % in the 1982 and over 8% on 1993 and 1949 and n9% in 
> 1979.  We've had BOOM periods with higher unemployment that this!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-29 by Peter Nelson

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
knightmaer35@a... wrote:
>  But I have read that currently we have a greater number 
> of those who have fallen off the official unemployment rolls. 

Any such number would be purely speculative.  The only
way to compare apples-to-apples is to use numbers that
are acquired according to a consistent methodology.

The other day I went to get a haircut and my HAIRDRESSER was an 
unemployed software engineer!  It was surreal discussing Visual 
Studio and C++ -vs- C# with my hairdresser but I took her resume and 
I've been circulating it here at work, since we're hiring.  So I 
know it's bad for some people, but I'm 50 and have lived through 
lots of economic downturns, and personally I've seen worse and the 
BLS data supports that.

The bottom line is that economies with MINIMAL government regulation 
have been shown CONSISTENTLY to generate jobs better than highly 
regulated ones.   The EU's rate of job generation has been WAY 
smaller the the US' because the EU won't let businessmen run their 
own businesses their own way.   I don't want to emulate the EU.

OFF TOPIC POSTS was Chips AhoY!

2003-07-29 by Martin Wesley

Okay guys. Enough already! I should not have to point out that this is way
off topic. Please take it off list.

Also remember that just because someone starts an off-topic thread doesn't
mean should continue it. Please try to be part of the solution rather than
part of the problem.

Thanks,
Martin Wesley
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Nelson [mailto:peter@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:36 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> knightmaer35@a... wrote:
> >  But I have read that currently we have a greater number
> > of those who have fallen off the official unemployment rolls.
>
> Any such number would be purely speculative.  The only
> way to compare apples-to-apples is to use numbers that
> are acquired according to a consistent methodology.
>
> The other day I went to get a haircut and my HAIRDRESSER was an
> unemployed software engineer!  It was surreal discussing Visual
> Studio and C++ -vs- C# with my hairdresser but I took her resume and
> I've been circulating it here at work, since we're hiring.  So I
> know it's bad for some people, but I'm 50 and have lived through
> lots of economic downturns, and personally I've seen worse and the
> BLS data supports that.
>
> The bottom line is that economies with MINIMAL government regulation
> have been shown CONSISTENTLY to generate jobs better than highly
> regulated ones.   The EU's rate of job generation has been WAY
> smaller the the US' because the EU won't let businessmen run their
> own businesses their own way.   I don't want to emulate the EU.
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
> messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-30 by Alan Zinn

At 01:10 PM 7/29/03 -0400, you wrote:


>Peter Nelson wrote:
>
> >--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Alan Zinn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Seems to me that the government will see this as a
> >>restraint of trade issue.  I don't think a company
> >>would be so short-sighted, but then look at the
> >>antics of the DVD interests.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >A product manufacturer is under no obligation to make it easy for
> >other companies to interface to his product.   Microsoft does not
> >have to supply an API to its software products, or if they DO supply
> >an API they are under no obligation to expose all possible behaviors
> >or interfaces.
> >
> >
>That's a VERY different kettle of fish from undertaking blatant efforts
>designed to effect no other goal than: making the ability to use
>alternative consumables either nearly literally impossible (handshaking
>encrypted chips) or so high, as to create an unfair restraint of trade
>.  Imagine INtel designing a chip, that didn't just optimize Windows
>related instructions sets, but if it saw non-windows OS code, it would
>shut itself down, thereby preventing the use of any other OS.. That
>would clearly be a restraint of trade and even Intel knows it (and M$
>has learned at least that much, the HARD way)..
>
>In such cases, in a marketplace where the product is no longer a niche
>product, look at the legal cases involving Xerox et. al. and consumables
>or some automobile replacement parts manufacture,  you have what is
>called more exactly "illegal vertical tying."
>
>Didn't you lose this argument already, back at:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/26305
>
>
>
>I'm a Republican myself, but under the current RIDICULOUSLY, "anything
>goes in business as long as US companies are printing cash for owners
>and shareholders marketplace," where things like the  FCC proposing to
>allow more consolidation of media ownership, and the White House
>threatening to veto appropriations legislation from both (Republican
>controlled I might add) houses of Congress that would prevent the FCC
>from implementing such ludicrously anti-democratic policies - in such an
>environment HP and Lexmark et al believe they can do "as they will" to
>restrain trade..
>
>Implementing a scheme like this, or Lexmark's patented cartridge that
>destroys itself when ink runs low,  may just tip the balance though..
>The manufacturers need to remember it isn't only the Feds that can cost
>you lots of $$ in anti-trust litigation.  Ask M$ about the State
>Attorneys General..  ;-)
>
>In some sense I hope HP does go ahead with this lunacy.  Given the
>number of HP printers in gov't offices, and the ubiquity of inkjets in
>the marketplace, a showdown would definitely be brewing.. When tying is
>allowed in a market segment, historically, there have been one or two
>parties who "take the game too far" and end up generating litigation
>that overturns the entire set of practices in that market segment.. In
>this case HP and Lexmark seem hell bent on doing so.. All I can say is
>they must REALLY NEED short term profit to risk such a bold-faced cash
>grab.     Once this all ends up in a US court, I'd bet dollars to donuts
>that the whole "chipped-cartridges to enable cost-shifting" game will be
>effectively over...  HP and Lexmark are showing unrestrained greed here,
>along with utilizing every practical avenue to tie the original product
>and its consumable feed pipeline. Whatever the White House may think
>will make little difference if this ends up in the courts..
>
>Not to mention that the EU legislation specifically prohibiting such
>practices in printers comes into effect in about 18 months.. ;-)  (If I
>remember correctly) Thereby preventing HP from even selling any of these
>encrypted printers in the EU..
>
>Peter, I believe wholeheartedly in free-trade and an open-market.
>However, it is plain and simple blindness to think that allowing OEMs to
>utilize their $ and market position to BY DESIGN add product features
>that have NO OTHER rational goal than to prevent the entry of 3rd party
>suppliers into the consumable feed stream is about as blatant an example
>of restraint of trade as one can technologically concoct.  We aren't
>talking about not making it easy for others to interface with a product,
>we are talking about designs effectuated in attempts to make it
>impossible.. It's the same philosophical difference (moral questions
>aside) we see in say, criminal law, between accidentally shooting a
>third part when defending yourself or a removing the uterus of a
>pregnant woman with aggressive uterine cancer thereby terminating a
>fetus (both would be unintended consequences, with the second, perhaps,
>more unavoidable) when compare to randomly purposely shooting a third
>party to demonstrate your pique during an argument with another party or
>purposely aborting the same fetus to effectuate effective "birth
>control."   For those who see no ethical or real difference, or unable
>to parse the difference, between the first set of instances and the
>second: I feel sorry for you and hope you NEVER end up on the judicial
>bench anywhere (except perhaps somewhere like Saudi Arabia or Iran,
>where Justice is eminently simplistic)..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer
>User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo
>Publications), at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
>
>"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together
>guys"
>
>
>Ohooooooo! Those Republicans are a testy bunch, aren't they?

AZ

Re: [Digital BW] Chips AhoY!

2003-07-30 by Alan Zinn

At 07:34 PM 7/29/03 +0000, you wrote:
>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V.
>Image Service" <editor@p...> wrote:
>
> > In the end though, this forum is about inkjets and B&W printing
> > thereof... But every time this issue comes up Peter, you digress,
>
>Complain to Alan Zinn - he was the one who introduced the political
>angle:
>
># Seems to me that the government will see this as a
># restraint of trade issue. I don't think a company
># would be so short-sighted, but then look at the
># antics of the DVD interests.
>
>I just responded to it.

I object! yer honor! It was a simple reflection without any bias for or 
against chips.

AZ

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