Digital BW, The Print

I would still consider it cheap when you look at the ink cost per print.  Of course that is relative to what you consider expensive. 

How much money is spent on a wet darkroom and the attendant chemicals, ventilation systems, special lights, special timers, special area to work (assuming you don't use your bedroom).  How often must the chemicals be replenished?  Is there any waste to wet darkroom chemicals?  Does anyone ever mix it wrongly?

Most real darkrooms are not usable for anything else but that purpose...hence they have a "cost" of using the space and dedicating it to use of the dark and chemicals/trays etc..  With a digital darkroom, I can use the same space as my desktop in my office and others can even use their home's bedroom if they wanted.  Toxic chemicals are a drag and not healthy in a living environment.  Digital is clean and more healthy. 

So even if the USA "ink only cost" of a piezobw  print is a full $1 per print...and you add 40% import duty to the cost of ink....that still gets to only about $1.40 for the ink only cost (about the same as a color photocopy in my local copy shop).  Add $1 or $2 for the paper and you still can produce the ink/paper for about $3 per 8x10 print.  That is about the cost of a hamburger, Coke and fries.  Is that expensive?  For a fine art print?  

I don't consider that expensive.  Relative to a plain photocopy maybe.  Relative to a cheap ink or cheap paper combination it is more expensive.  But, I don't use cheap materials in whatever fine art I make.   When I buy watercolors, I buy the best.  When I buy oils for canvas, I buy  the best.  I have less to worry about that way and my customers do not care if I save $.50 per print. 

Now....Photoshop, that is expensive!   But worth it too. (grin) 

Regards, 
Steadman

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Julian Thomas 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:29 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Praise For a Super DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short Version


  . Guess
  > what? Today I received an order for 20 20x30" Piezo prints from my
  > Venice Series for the public areas of an office building. Kindo of
  > makes you take a second look and say.....SO WHAT!
  >
  > Reagrds
  > Mike
  Yeah well, when that happens true - I'd love to be able to buy at the
  prices you guys do. If it was 40% more expensive - then what would you say?

  Julian


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
              ADVERTISEMENT
             
       
       

  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I would still consider it cheap when you look at the ink cost per print.
Of course that is relative to what you consider expensive.

 Yeah but add the workprints, numerous portfolios that get you the sales etc
etc and it mounts up. My biggest beef re price was that Cone hasn't given
Nij a big enough break so that he can sell in the uk at US prices. Now my
posts show thatI'm a big supporter of Cone as a system, but i don't believe
that they will be able to justify a 500% price differential between them and
their competitors for long.

> Most real darkrooms are not usable for anything else but that
purpose...hence they have a "cost" of using the space and dedicating it to
use of the dark and chemicals/trays etc..  With a digital darkroom, I can
use the same space as my desktop in my office and others can even use their
home's bedroom if they wanted.  Toxic chemicals are a drag and not healthy
in a living environment.  Digital is clean and more healthy.

All true


> Now....Photoshop, that is expensive!   But worth it too. (grin)

Yeah but you can hack that <g>.

I'm not saying Piezo isn't great, it is, and I recomend it to everyone who
asks, as I think you know, but I still think that they are wrong on price of
inks. I'm showing my prints to people here and they are impressed and want
to get on board but can't afford it. We can't charge the prices you guys do.
The average wage here 16kUSD. If Nij could be supplied so that  we could buy
for the same price as in the states, in real terms that still makes it
harder for Euro photographers to use the system. I can't justify to people I
show stuff to here that Piezo is 5 times better than MIS. Now I KNOW the
software is worth it but...

Anyway, for me, piezo works, I make great prints etc, no clogs, no greenies

Julian

>
> Regards,
> Steadman
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Julian Thomas
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:29 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Praise For a Super DigitalBW Product:
Outstanding Results!! Short Version
>
>
>   . Guess
>   > what? Today I received an order for 20 20x30" Piezo prints from my
>   > Venice Series for the public areas of an office building. Kindo of
>   > makes you take a second look and say.....SO WHAT!
>   >
>   > Reagrds
>   > Mike
>   Yeah well, when that happens true - I'd love to be able to buy at the
>   prices you guys do. If it was 40% more expensive - then what would you
say?
>
>   Julian
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - Include your full name with your message.
>   - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them short.
>   - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
>   - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>   - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Considering that it would take me 15 - 20 progress prints in the darkroom to get to the final "fine" print I would say that the inks in Piezo are relatively cheap.

Regards,

Michael J. Kravit, AIA
Architect/Photographer
www.kravit.net/photography

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steadman Uhlich 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:42 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cost of Digital Prints: was Re: Praise For a Super DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short Version


  I would still consider it cheap when you look at the ink cost per print.  Of course that is relative to what you consider expensive. 

  How much money is spent on a wet darkroom and the attendant chemicals, ventilation systems, special lights, special timers, special area to work (assuming you don't use your bedroom).  How often must the chemicals be replenished?  Is there any waste to wet darkroom chemicals?  Does anyone ever mix it wrongly?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good point Michael!  Progress does take many steps...or adjustment layers.

Steadman

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Michael J. Kravit 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 9:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cost of Digital Prints: was Re: Praise For a Super DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short Version


  Considering that it would take me 15 - 20 progress prints in the darkroom to get to the final "fine" print I would say that the inks in Piezo are relatively cheap.

  Regards,

  Michael J. Kravit, AIA
  Architect/Photographer
  www.kravit.net/photography
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Steadman Uhlich 
    To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
    Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:42 AM
    Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cost of Digital Prints: was Re: Praise For a Super DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short Version


    I would still consider it cheap when you look at the ink cost per print.  Of course that is relative to what you consider expensive. 

    How much money is spent on a wet darkroom and the attendant chemicals, ventilation systems, special lights, special timers, special area to work (assuming you don't use your bedroom).  How often must the chemicals be replenished?  Is there any waste to wet darkroom chemicals?  Does anyone ever mix it wrongly?



  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
              ADVERTISEMENT
             
       
       

  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OK, compared with a darkroom you guys are right - out of 100 sheet box I'd
get maybe 10-15 prints and the time element is disproportionate.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael J. Kravit" <kravit@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 4:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cost of Digital Prints: was Re: Praise For a Super
DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short Version


> Considering that it would take me 15 - 20 progress prints in the darkroom
to get to the final "fine" print I would say that the inks in Piezo are
relatively cheap.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael J. Kravit, AIA
> Architect/Photographer
> www.kravit.net/photography
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Steadman Uhlich
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:42 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cost of Digital Prints: was Re: Praise For a
Super DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short Version
>
>
>   I would still consider it cheap when you look at the ink cost per print.
Of course that is relative to what you consider expensive.
>
>   How much money is spent on a wet darkroom and the attendant chemicals,
ventilation systems, special lights, special timers, special area to work
(assuming you don't use your bedroom).  How often must the chemicals be
replenished?  Is there any waste to wet darkroom chemicals?  Does anyone
ever mix it wrongly?
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Steadman, Mike,

It still takes me 15 - 20 work prints (Piezo or MIS) to get to a 
final print! This probably has more to do with being obsessive and 
endlessly tweaking, and is probably system independent. ;-)

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich" 
<steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
> Good point Michael!  Progress does take many steps...or adjustment 
layers.
> 
> Steadman
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Michael J. Kravit 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y... 
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 9:36 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cost of Digital Prints: was Re: Praise 
For a Super DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short Version
> 
> 
>   Considering that it would take me 15 - 20 progress prints in the 
darkroom to get to the final "fine" print I would say that the inks 
in Piezo are relatively cheap.
> 
>   Regards,
> 
>   Michael J. Kravit, AIA
(snip)

That does sound obsessive....join the crowd.

Steadman

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Martin Wesley 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 11:27 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Cost of Digital Prints: was Re: Praise For a Super DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short Version


  Steadman, Mike,

  It still takes me 15 - 20 work prints (Piezo or MIS) to get to a 
  final print! This probably has more to do with being obsessive and 
  endlessly tweaking, and is probably system independent. ;-)

  Martin

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich" 
  <steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
  > Good point Michael!  Progress does take many steps...or adjustment 
  layers.
  > 
  > Steadman
  >   ----- Original Message ----- 
  >   From: Michael J. Kravit 
  >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y... 
  >   Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 9:36 PM
  >   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cost of Digital Prints: was Re: Praise 
  For a Super DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short Version
  > 
  > 
  >   Considering that it would take me 15 - 20 progress prints in the 
  darkroom to get to the final "fine" print I would say that the inks 
  in Piezo are relatively cheap.
  > 
  >   Regards,
  > 
  >   Michael J. Kravit, AIA
  (snip)


  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I hope Martin, Steadman, Mike and others will post a note about with 
which inkset(s) it is practical to proof on a paper less expensive 
than their final-print paper and what their preferred combinations 
are. Thanks.

Sam McCandless       samcc@...

>Steadman, Mike,
>
>It still takes me 15 - 20 work prints (Piezo or MIS) to get to a
>final print! This probably has more to do with being obsessive and
>endlessly tweaking, and is probably system independent. ;-)
>
>Martin
>
>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich"
><steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
> > Good point Michael!  Progress does take many steps...or adjustment
>layers.
> >
> > Steadman
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Michael J. Kravit
> >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> >   Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 9:36 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cost of Digital Prints: was Re: Praise
>For a Super DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short Version
> >
> >
> >   Considering that it would take me 15 - 20 progress prints in the
>darkroom to get to the final "fine" print I would say that the inks
>in Piezo are relatively cheap.
> >
> >   Regards,
> >
> >   Michael J. Kravit, AIA
>(snip)

Sam,

This is easy. Use Piezo. With all the different paper profiles it 
makes it much simpler to proof print on an inexpensive paper like EAM 
and then switch paper & paper profile to print on a more expensive 
paper. I would expect to still have to do some tweeking to get it 
just right.

I am surprized that the Piezo fans don't point this out as a cost 
advantage.

You can do the same thing with any of the other quad/hex ink sets but 
you will need to develope your own paper "profiles" or adjustment 
curves to allow you to move more smoothly from proofing paper to 
final paper.

Martin Wesley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Sam A. McCandless" 
<samcc@v...> wrote:
> I hope Martin, Steadman, Mike and others will post a note about 
with 
> which inkset(s) it is practical to proof on a paper less expensive 
> than their final-print paper and what their preferred combinations 
> are. Thanks.
> 
> Sam McCandless       samcc@v...
> 
> 
> >Steadman, Mike,
> >
> >It still takes me 15 - 20 work prints (Piezo or MIS) to get to a
> >final print! This probably has more to do with being obsessive and
> >endlessly tweaking, and is probably system independent. ;-)
> >
> >Martin
> >
> >--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich"
> ><steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
> > > Good point Michael!  Progress does take many steps...or 
adjustment
> >layers.
> > >
> > > Steadman
> > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > >   From: Michael J. Kravit
> > >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> > >   Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 9:36 PM
> > >   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cost of Digital Prints: was Re: 
Praise
> >For a Super DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short Version
> > >
> > >
> > >   Considering that it would take me 15 - 20 progress prints in 
the

> >darkroom to get to the final "fine" print I would say that the inks
> >in Piezo are relatively cheap.
> > >
> > >   Regards,
> > >
> > >   Michael J. Kravit, AIA
> >(snip)

It doesn't quite work though Martin. I proof on EAM just to see if a print
is worth working on, but the look between PR and EAM is so different. But
you are right the profiles are great.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 7:18 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Cost of Digital Prints: was Re: Praise For a Super
DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short Version


> Sam,
>
> This is easy. Use Piezo. With all the different paper profiles it
> makes it much simpler to proof print on an inexpensive paper like EAM
> and then switch paper & paper profile to print on a more expensive
> paper. I would expect to still have to do some tweeking to get it
> just right.
>
> I am surprized that the Piezo fans don't point this out as a cost
> advantage.
>
> You can do the same thing with any of the other quad/hex ink sets but
> you will need to develope your own paper "profiles" or adjustment
> curves to allow you to move more smoothly from proofing paper to
> final paper.
>
> Martin Wesley
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Sam A. McCandless"
> <samcc@v...> wrote:
> > I hope Martin, Steadman, Mike and others will post a note about
> with
> > which inkset(s) it is practical to proof on a paper less expensive
> > than their final-print paper and what their preferred combinations
> > are. Thanks.
> >
> > Sam McCandless       samcc@v...
> >
> >
> > >Steadman, Mike,
> > >
> > >It still takes me 15 - 20 work prints (Piezo or MIS) to get to a
> > >final print! This probably has more to do with being obsessive and
> > >endlessly tweaking, and is probably system independent. ;-)
> > >
> > >Martin
> > >
> > >--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich"
> > ><steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
> > > > Good point Michael!  Progress does take many steps...or
> adjustment
> > >layers.
> > > >
> > > > Steadman
> > > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > > >   From: Michael J. Kravit
> > > >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> > > >   Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 9:36 PM
> > > >   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cost of Digital Prints: was Re:
> Praise
> > >For a Super DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short Version
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   Considering that it would take me 15 - 20 progress prints in
> the
> > >darkroom to get to the final "fine" print I would say that the inks
> > >in Piezo are relatively cheap.
> > > >
> > > >   Regards,
> > > >
> > > >   Michael J. Kravit, AIA
> > >(snip)
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Julian,

You definitely have to do some minor to major adjustment when you 
change paper and profile simply for esthetic reasons if nothing else. 
If you don't have a paper specific "profile" or adjustment curve, it 
will take more time and paper.

Without this running MIS VM it is not always obvious what to adjust 
when you change paper. These is probably a matter of experience and 
after working with it long enough one should develop a feel for it 
reducing the amount of effort required.

Martin


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Julian Thomas" 
<julianthomas@t...> wrote:
> It doesn't quite work though Martin. I proof on EAM just to see if 
a print
> is worth working on, but the look between PR and EAM is so 
different. But
> you are right the profiles are great.
> 
> Julian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@e...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 7:18 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] Cost of Digital Prints: was Re: Praise For a 
Super
> DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short Version
> 
> 
> > Sam,
> >
> > This is easy. Use Piezo. With all the different paper profiles it
> > makes it much simpler to proof print on an inexpensive paper like 
EAM
> > and then switch paper & paper profile to print on a more expensive
> > paper. I would expect to still have to do some tweeking to get it
> > just right.
> >
> > I am surprized that the Piezo fans don't point this out as a cost
> > advantage.
> >
> > You can do the same thing with any of the other quad/hex ink sets 
but
> > you will need to develope your own paper "profiles" or adjustment
> > curves to allow you to move more smoothly from proofing paper to
> > final paper.
> >
> > Martin Wesley
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Sam A. McCandless"
> > <samcc@v...> wrote:
> > > I hope Martin, Steadman, Mike and others will post a note about
> > with
> > > which inkset(s) it is practical to proof on a paper less 
expensive
> > > than their final-print paper and what their preferred 
combinations
> > > are. Thanks.
> > >
> > > Sam McCandless       samcc@v...
> > >
> > >
> > > >Steadman, Mike,
> > > >
> > > >It still takes me 15 - 20 work prints (Piezo or MIS) to get to 
a
> > > >final print! This probably has more to do with being obsessive 
and
> > > >endlessly tweaking, and is probably system independent. ;-)
> > > >
> > > >Martin
> > > >
> > > >--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich"
> > > ><steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
> > > > > Good point Michael!  Progress does take many steps...or
> > adjustment
> > > >layers.
> > > > >
> > > > > Steadman
> > > > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >   From: Michael J. Kravit
> > > > >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> > > > >   Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 9:36 PM
> > > > >   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cost of Digital Prints: was Re:
> > Praise
> > > >For a Super DigitalBW Product: Outstanding Results!! Short 
Version
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >   Considering that it would take me 15 - 20 progress prints 
in
> > the
> > > >darkroom to get to the final "fine" print I would say that the 
inks
> > > >in Piezo are relatively cheap.
> > > > >
> > > > >   Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >   Michael J. Kravit, AIA
> > > >(snip)
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or "flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >
> >
> >

The key to working with a new paper and the VM inks (and I suspect w/ Piezo
also) is to begin with a step wedge, and adjust either with a curve or a
transfer function until the steps are even and at the correct relative
density.  After that, you can begin to become familiar with the different
looks and aesthetics of the different papers, and adjust contrast,
luminosity, and etc. to get the look you want.

Like anything else it is a question of becoming _thoroughly_ familiar with
your medium, and that does not come with the click of a button!

Bill Morse
PhotoProspect
Cambridge, MA 


on 10/28/01 1:49 PM, Martin Wesley wrote:



...(with) MIS VM it is not always obvious what to adjust
when you change paper. These is probably a matter of experience and
after working with it long enough one should develop a feel for it
reducing the amount of effort required.

Martin





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]