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New System for 2200

New System for 2200

2003-07-29 by Clayton Jones

Hello All, 

The SunDance/R9 system will soon be available for the 2200.  This is
what I was hinting at the other day.  I have been given the ok to talk
about it.

For a comparison article I'm writing on the Technical Print Exchange
prints the R9 flks sent me some sample prints and they look beautiful,
even better than the 7600 samples.

The system, with a CIS, will be available soon and Inkjet Goodies is
taking orders.  Apparently they are just finalizing some details in
the hardware.  I was told that they hope to have cartridges available
by the end of August.  That's all I know about it.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-29 by chipcarterdc

Where can I find more info on what this system is and how it works?

Thanks!


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" 
<cj@c...> wrote:
> Hello All, 
> 
> The SunDance/R9 system will soon be available for the 2200.  This is
> what I was hinting at the other day.  I have been given the ok to 
talk
> about it.
> 
> For a comparison article I'm writing on the Technical Print Exchange
> prints the R9 flks sent me some sample prints and they look 
beautiful,
> even better than the 7600 samples.
> 
> The system, with a CIS, will be available soon and Inkjet Goodies is
> taking orders.  Apparently they are just finalizing some details in
> the hardware.  I was told that they hope to have cartridges 
available
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> by the end of August.  That's all I know about it.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-29 by Tom OConnell

Clayton-

How do we see your article???

I'm having trouble understading why one would put a CIS system on a 
2200. It seems that the advantage of the 2200 is the OEM inks and OEM 
carts that seal and allow quick changes. Once you put the CIS in, you 
become wedded to one inkset...is there any advantage to a 2200 over a 
1280 in that case?

cheers,

Tom O'Connell


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" 
<cj@c...> wrote:
> Hello All, 
> 
> The SunDance/R9 system will soon be available for the 2200.  This is
> what I was hinting at the other day.  I have been given the ok to 
talk
> about it.
> 
> For a comparison article I'm writing on the Technical Print Exchange
> prints the R9 flks sent me some sample prints and they look 
beautiful,
> even better than the 7600 samples.
> 
> The system, with a CIS, will be available soon and Inkjet Goodies is
> taking orders.  Apparently they are just finalizing some details in
> the hardware.  I was told that they hope to have cartridges 
available
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> by the end of August.  That's all I know about it.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-29 by Clayton Jones

Hellp Chip,

>Where can I find more info on what this system is and how it works?

I have not found any information about it online yet.  As for how it
works, I think it's the same technology that they've been selling for
the 7600/9600.  When it was announced last May they said it would
eventually be for the 2200 as well, so I suppose this is it.  Here is
their web site:

       http://www.bwguys.com/

Here's the link to Inkjet Goodies, but I don't see anything there yet
either.  But the R9 guy told me they were taking orders, so maybe it
requires a phone call:

               http://inkjetgoodies.com


From viewing the sample prints I can say this:

* dot-free continuous tone
* well-balanced gray scale ramp without any abrupt transitions
* good shadow detail
* dood Dmax (sample prints on EEM and PR)
* warm to cool tone selectable
* no metamerism


Briefly, the system uses 7 inks: Black plus 3 warm grays and 3 cool
grays, and they are mixed in various proportions to get the desired
tone (example: 25% warm + 75% cool).  The mixtures can be specified
for the high, middle, and low parts of the scale so you can, for
example, have warm highlights and cool blacks.

I have a screen shot of the interface and it looks very easy to use. 
There are 3 sliders for Low, Mid and High tones, each adjusting the
warm/cool ratio.  They can be locked so they all move together.

The R9 Corp. software is a PS plugin.  The SepTone inks are by
SunDance and they claim 100 yr+ tested by RIT.

I was told that the 2200 system will first be available with a CIS,
and that by end of August they expect to have carts.  I don't know
anything about the cost.

I'm going to cover parts of a print and let some bright light hit it
for awhile to see if there is any fading or color shifting.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: [Digital BW] Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-29 by Justin Florentine

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

This could be good news, but I'm wondering about the software costs.

There is no way I'll be able to afford PixelPicasso ($1500).  I wonder 
if you'll be able to get similar results with the inks and QuadtoneRIP 2 
on Linux.  Am I right though?  All you should need is an ICC profile for 
the inks and you should be able to use them in any RIP right?  If so, 
how would you go about adjusting the tone?  Just tweak the inks in the RIP?

I'm installing Quadtone RIP 2 tonight on a redhat 9 box.  Hopefully I'll 
understand the situation a little better once I've played with it.

Clayton Jones wrote:

|Hellp Chip,
|
|>Where can I find more info on what this system is and how it works?
|
|
|I have not found any information about it online yet.  As for how it
|works, I think it's the same technology that they've been selling for
|the 7600/9600.  When it was announced last May they said it would
|eventually be for the 2200 as well, so I suppose this is it.  Here is
|their web site:
|
|       http://www.bwguys.com/
|
|Here's the link to Inkjet Goodies, but I don't see anything there yet
|either.  But the R9 guy told me they were taking orders, so maybe it
|requires a phone call:
|
|               http://inkjetgoodies.com
|
|
|From viewing the sample prints I can say this:
|
|* dot-free continuous tone
|* well-balanced gray scale ramp without any abrupt transitions
|* good shadow detail
|* dood Dmax (sample prints on EEM and PR)
|* warm to cool tone selectable
|* no metamerism
|
|
|Briefly, the system uses 7 inks: Black plus 3 warm grays and 3 cool
|grays, and they are mixed in various proportions to get the desired
|tone (example: 25% warm + 75% cool).  The mixtures can be specified
|for the high, middle, and low parts of the scale so you can, for
|example, have warm highlights and cool blacks.
|
|I have a screen shot of the interface and it looks very easy to use.
|There are 3 sliders for Low, Mid and High tones, each adjusting the
|warm/cool ratio.  They can be locked so they all move together.
|
|The R9 Corp. software is a PS plugin.  The SepTone inks are by
|SunDance and they claim 100 yr+ tested by RIT.
|
|I was told that the 2200 system will first be available with a CIS,
|and that by end of August they expect to have carts.  I don't know
|anything about the cost.
|
|I'm going to cover parts of a print and let some bright light hit it
|for awhile to see if there is any fading or color shifting.
|
|
|Regards,
|Clayton
|
|
|Info on black and white digital printing at    
|http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
|
|
|
|Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
|
|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
|
|If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this 
same page.
|
|Please follow these basic guidelines:
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|- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
|- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
keep them short.
|- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
|- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
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|- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage.
|
|
|
|
|Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|

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Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-29 by Clayton Jones

Hello Tom,

> How do we see your article???

By going to my web site, _after_ it is written of course <g>.  I'm
just getting started.  Here's what it's all about...

Last spring I participated in a "technical" print exchange, where
everyone printed the same print but on different systems.  Tom Fors
organized it and he was careful to get 10 people using a variety of
systems.  It was a real eye opener for me and I felt it would be
good to analyse the prints and post the results on line, because so
many people have questions about the different systems.  I also felt
it would be good to include _all_ the current systems/RIPs/inks, etc,
so for some weeks now I've been contacting everyone and requesting
sample prints, using the same test image.  At this point I have prints
from everyone and I'm beginning to organize the material.  I received
a set (showing different tones) of 7600 prints from R9 a few weeks
ago.  A few days ago they contacted me and said they have the 2200
system working now and would I want sample prints from that for the
article?  Of course I said yes and they arrived today.  I called them
today and got their ok to talk about it here.

Important point: It is not the purpose of the article to make a
judgement and declare a winner.  It is merely to systematically
catalog the various attributes of the prints (such as whether or not
there are visible dots, metamerism, etc) so that readers can get some
idea of the differences in the various systems.



>I'm having trouble understading why one would put a CIS system on a 
>2200. 

Well, for one, I suppose they have the inks and software working but
haven't gotten the replacement carts/chips perfected yet, and would
like to sell some stuff.

Also, I'm sure using a CIS will be much cheaper in the long run,
especially for high volume operations...the usual reasons.


As for the article, I'm always swamped with work and have to fit it
in, so it probably will be a few weeks before it's done.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

RE: [Digital BW] Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-29 by Roger L Sopher

Hi Justin,

If you get Quadtone up and going on your linux box would you consider
posting a detailed guide on how you did it? I have a system sitting around
with Suse 8.2 on an old lap top for emailing while on the road.  I have cups
up and going but I am not enough of a linux buff to get past rpms for
program installation.

Roger
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Justin Florentine [mailto:justin@...]
  Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:23 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New System for 2200


  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
  Hash: SHA1

  This could be good news, but I'm wondering about the software costs.

  There is no way I'll be able to afford PixelPicasso ($1500).  I wonder
  if you'll be able to get similar results with the inks and QuadtoneRIP 2
  on Linux.  Am I right though?  All you should need is an ICC profile for
  the inks and you should be able to use them in any RIP right?  If so,
  how would you go about adjusting the tone?  Just tweak the inks in the
RIP?

  I'm installing Quadtone RIP 2 tonight on a redhat 9 box.  Hopefully I'll
  understand the situation a little better once I've played with it.

  Clayton Jones wrote:

  |Hellp Chip,
  |
  |>Where can I find more info on what this system is and how it works?
  |
  |
  |I have not found any information about it online yet.  As for how it
  |works, I think it's the same technology that they've been selling for
  |the 7600/9600.  When it was announced last May they said it would
  |eventually be for the 2200 as well, so I suppose this is it.  Here is
  |their web site:
  |
  |       http://www.bwguys.com/
  |
  |Here's the link to Inkjet Goodies, but I don't see anything there yet
  |either.  But the R9 guy told me they were taking orders, so maybe it
  |requires a phone call:
  |
  |               http://inkjetgoodies.com
  |
  |
  |From viewing the sample prints I can say this:
  |
  |* dot-free continuous tone
  |* well-balanced gray scale ramp without any abrupt transitions
  |* good shadow detail
  |* dood Dmax (sample prints on EEM and PR)
  |* warm to cool tone selectable
  |* no metamerism
  |
  |
  |Briefly, the system uses 7 inks: Black plus 3 warm grays and 3 cool
  |grays, and they are mixed in various proportions to get the desired
  |tone (example: 25% warm + 75% cool).  The mixtures can be specified
  |for the high, middle, and low parts of the scale so you can, for
  |example, have warm highlights and cool blacks.
  |
  |I have a screen shot of the interface and it looks very easy to use.
  |There are 3 sliders for Low, Mid and High tones, each adjusting the
  |warm/cool ratio.  They can be locked so they all move together.
  |
  |The R9 Corp. software is a PS plugin.  The SepTone inks are by
  |SunDance and they claim 100 yr+ tested by RIT.
  |
  |I was told that the 2200 system will first be available with a CIS,
  |and that by end of August they expect to have carts.  I don't know
  |anything about the cost.
  |
  |I'm going to cover parts of a print and let some bright light hit it
  |for awhile to see if there is any fading or color shifting.
  |
  |
  |Regards,
  |Clayton
  |
  |
  |Info on black and white digital printing at
  |http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
  |
  |
  |
  |Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
  and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
  |
  |http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
  |
  |If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
  unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
  same page.
  |
  |Please follow these basic guidelines:
  |- Include your full name with your message.
  |- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  |- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
  keep them short.
  |- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  |- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
  |- Complete your Yahoo profile.
  |- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
  various resources on the homepage.
  |
  |
  |
  |
  |Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  |
  |

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  3zcyH3ZG5gcmgGLQdb8v3ds=
  =drT5
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by Carl Schofield

I agree.  One of the reasons I bought the 2200 was the potential 
versatility of this machine.  The only thing holding me back from 
exploring other inksets right now is the availability of empty carts 
and I don't want to buy into one inkset and associated canned 
software/profiles with a CIS system.  IJC/OPM or Roy's QuadtoneRIP 
provide the means to drive the printer with any inkset available and I 
don't need additional expensive software.  Actually, I don't even need 
a whole inkset - just one additional light gray ink.  So where are 
those empty carts?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:59  PM, Tom OConnell wrote:

> Clayton-
>
> How do we see your article???
>
> I'm having trouble understading why one would put a CIS system on a
> 2200. It seems that the advantage of the 2200 is the OEM inks and OEM
> carts that seal and allow quick changes. Once you put the CIS in, you
> become wedded to one inkset...is there any advantage to a 2200 over a
> 1280 in that case?
>
> cheers,
>
> Tom O'Connell
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by Justin Florentine

Absolutely.  I was planning on doing that anyway to compare notes with 
Staver.

10-4 good buddy....



Roger L Sopher wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Hi Justin,
>
>If you get Quadtone up and going on your linux box would you consider
>posting a detailed guide on how you did it? I have a system sitting around
>with Suse 8.2 on an old lap top for emailing while on the road.  I have cups
>up and going but I am not enough of a linux buff to get past rpms for
>program installation.
>
>Roger
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Justin Florentine [mailto:justin@...]
>  Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:23 PM
>  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New System for 2200
>
>
>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  Hash: SHA1
>
>  This could be good news, but I'm wondering about the software costs.
>
>  There is no way I'll be able to afford PixelPicasso ($1500).  I wonder
>  if you'll be able to get similar results with the inks and QuadtoneRIP 2
>  on Linux.  Am I right though?  All you should need is an ICC profile for
>  the inks and you should be able to use them in any RIP right?  If so,
>  how would you go about adjusting the tone?  Just tweak the inks in the
>RIP?
>
>  I'm installing Quadtone RIP 2 tonight on a redhat 9 box.  Hopefully I'll
>  understand the situation a little better once I've played with it.
>
>  Clayton Jones wrote:
>
>  |Hellp Chip,
>  |
>  |>Where can I find more info on what this system is and how it works?
>  |
>  |
>  |I have not found any information about it online yet.  As for how it
>  |works, I think it's the same technology that they've been selling for
>  |the 7600/9600.  When it was announced last May they said it would
>  |eventually be for the 2200 as well, so I suppose this is it.  Here is
>  |their web site:
>  |
>  |       http://www.bwguys.com/
>  |
>  |Here's the link to Inkjet Goodies, but I don't see anything there yet
>  |either.  But the R9 guy told me they were taking orders, so maybe it
>  |requires a phone call:
>  |
>  |               http://inkjetgoodies.com
>  |
>  |
>  |From viewing the sample prints I can say this:
>  |
>  |* dot-free continuous tone
>  |* well-balanced gray scale ramp without any abrupt transitions
>  |* good shadow detail
>  |* dood Dmax (sample prints on EEM and PR)
>  |* warm to cool tone selectable
>  |* no metamerism
>  |
>  |
>  |Briefly, the system uses 7 inks: Black plus 3 warm grays and 3 cool
>  |grays, and they are mixed in various proportions to get the desired
>  |tone (example: 25% warm + 75% cool).  The mixtures can be specified
>  |for the high, middle, and low parts of the scale so you can, for
>  |example, have warm highlights and cool blacks.
>  |
>  |I have a screen shot of the interface and it looks very easy to use.
>  |There are 3 sliders for Low, Mid and High tones, each adjusting the
>  |warm/cool ratio.  They can be locked so they all move together.
>  |
>  |The R9 Corp. software is a PS plugin.  The SepTone inks are by
>  |SunDance and they claim 100 yr+ tested by RIT.
>  |
>  |I was told that the 2200 system will first be available with a CIS,
>  |and that by end of August they expect to have carts.  I don't know
>  |anything about the cost.
>  |
>  |I'm going to cover parts of a print and let some bright light hit it
>  |for awhile to see if there is any fading or color shifting.
>  |
>  |
>  |Regards,
>  |Clayton
>  |
>  |
>  |Info on black and white digital printing at
>  |http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>  |
>  |
>  |
>  |Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
>  and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>  |
>  |http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>  |
>  |If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>  unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
>  same page.
>  |
>  |Please follow these basic guidelines:
>  |- Include your full name with your message.
>  |- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>  |- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
>  keep them short.
>  |- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>  |- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
>  |- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>  |- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
>  various resources on the homepage.
>  |
>  |
>  |
>  |
>  |Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  |
>  |
>
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>
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>  3zcyH3ZG5gcmgGLQdb8v3ds=
>  =drT5
>  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
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>  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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>them short.
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>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
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>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
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>- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 
>
>
> 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>
>  
>

Re: [Digital BW] New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by Robert Morrison

A much, much better option will be using 2200 Ultratone carts in the  
2200 with OPM/IJC.  I've heard word today that the beta 2200 carts with  
ultratones in them have been released.  Theoretically this would allow  
you to only use one ultratone cart (the yellow channel...light gray  
ink) in a cart in one of the channels.  You can easily tone with the  
Epson OEM inks and light black and either photo black or matte black.  
All you would have to do to switch between color and fantastic BW is  
switch one of the carts...just like switching between photo black and  
matte black now. The r9 solution is dead in the water as far as I'm  
concerned...they need to catch up and think more progressively.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 11:07  AM, Clayton Jones wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> The SunDance/R9 system will soon be available for the 2200.  This is
> what I was hinting at the other day.  I have been given the ok to talk
> about it.
>
> For a comparison article I'm writing on the Technical Print Exchange
> prints the R9 flks sent me some sample prints and they look beautiful,
> even better than the 7600 samples.
>
> The system, with a CIS, will be available soon and Inkjet Goodies is
> taking orders.  Apparently they are just finalizing some details in
> the hardware.  I was told that they hope to have cartridges available
> by the end of August.  That's all I know about it.
>
> Regards,
> Clayton
>
>
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  
> ---------------------~-->
> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US &  
> Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson,  
> Lexmark & more.
> http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/ucIolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
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> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
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Re: [Digital BW] Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by Justin Florentine

WORD Carl.

For me, that adds to the buyers remorse.  I think I'm gonna try to run 
out my factory issue set of colors, then try to refill them by hand.  
I'll play with the color options and get the RIP running.  Then I can 
refill it with those septones.  I'm not ABOUT to speculate on when these 
things are gonna becaome tangible enough to buy.

Carl Schofield wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>I agree.  One of the reasons I bought the 2200 was the potential 
>versatility of this machine.  The only thing holding me back from 
>exploring other inksets right now is the availability of empty carts 
>and I don't want to buy into one inkset and associated canned 
>software/profiles with a CIS system.  IJC/OPM or Roy's QuadtoneRIP 
>provide the means to drive the printer with any inkset available and I 
>don't need additional expensive software.  Actually, I don't even need 
>a whole inkset - just one additional light gray ink.  So where are 
>those empty carts?
>
>On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:59  PM, Tom OConnell wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Clayton-
>>
>>How do we see your article???
>>
>>I'm having trouble understading why one would put a CIS system on a
>>2200. It seems that the advantage of the 2200 is the OEM inks and OEM
>>carts that seal and allow quick changes. Once you put the CIS in, you
>>become wedded to one inkset...is there any advantage to a 2200 over a
>>1280 in that case?
>>
>>cheers,
>>
>>Tom O'Connell
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [Digital BW] New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by Justin Florentine

Tremendous news Robert!  I knew nothing of this beta.  Do you have a 
link or anything?  Is this beta open to the public?  I'd love to get my 
hands on a couple of those carts...

Robert Morrison wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>A much, much better option will be using 2200 Ultratone carts in the  
>2200 with OPM/IJC.  I've heard word today that the beta 2200 carts with  
>ultratones in them have been released.  Theoretically this would allow  
>you to only use one ultratone cart (the yellow channel...light gray  
>ink) in a cart in one of the channels.  You can easily tone with the  
>Epson OEM inks and light black and either photo black or matte black.  
>All you would have to do to switch between color and fantastic BW is  
>switch one of the carts...just like switching between photo black and  
>matte black now. The r9 solution is dead in the water as far as I'm  
>concerned...they need to catch up and think more progressively.
>
>Robert
>
>
>On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 11:07  AM, Clayton Jones wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hello All,
>>
>>The SunDance/R9 system will soon be available for the 2200.  This is
>>what I was hinting at the other day.  I have been given the ok to talk
>>about it.
>>
>>For a comparison article I'm writing on the Technical Print Exchange
>>prints the R9 flks sent me some sample prints and they look beautiful,
>>even better than the 7600 samples.
>>
>>The system, with a CIS, will be available soon and Inkjet Goodies is
>>taking orders.  Apparently they are just finalizing some details in
>>the hardware.  I was told that they hope to have cartridges available
>>by the end of August.  That's all I know about it.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Clayton
>>
>>
>>Info on black and white digital printing at
>>http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>>
>>
>>------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  
>>---------------------~-->
>>Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US &  
>>Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson,  
>>Lexmark & more.
>>http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510
>>http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/ucIolB/TM
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>~->
>>
>>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls  
>>and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>
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>>
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Re: [Digital BW] New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by Robert Morrison

On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 09:14  PM, Justin Florentine wrote:

> Tremendous news Robert!  I knew nothing of this beta.  Do you have a
> link or anything?  Is this beta open to the public?

No.

> I'd love to get my
> hands on a couple of those carts...
>

My understanding is that it may be another month.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Robert Morrison wrote:
>
>> A much, much better option will be using 2200 Ultratone carts in the
>> 2200 with OPM/IJC.  I've heard word today that the beta 2200 carts  
>> with
>> ultratones in them have been released.  Theoretically this would allow
>> you to only use one ultratone cart (the yellow channel...light gray
>> ink) in a cart in one of the channels.  You can easily tone with the
>> Epson OEM inks and light black and either photo black or matte black.
>> All you would have to do to switch between color and fantastic BW is
>> switch one of the carts...just like switching between photo black and
>> matte black now. The r9 solution is dead in the water as far as I'm
>> concerned...they need to catch up and think more progressively.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 11:07  AM, Clayton Jones wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> The SunDance/R9 system will soon be available for the 2200.  This is
>>> what I was hinting at the other day.  I have been given the ok to  
>>> talk
>>> about it.
>>>
>>> For a comparison article I'm writing on the Technical Print Exchange
>>> prints the R9 flks sent me some sample prints and they look  
>>> beautiful,
>>> even better than the 7600 samples.
>>>
>>> The system, with a CIS, will be available soon and Inkjet Goodies is
>>> taking orders.  Apparently they are just finalizing some details in
>>> the hardware.  I was told that they hope to have cartridges available
>>> by the end of August.  That's all I know about it.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Clayton
>>>
>>>
>>> Info on black and white digital printing at
>>> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>> ---------------------~-->
>>> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US &
>>> Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson,
>>> Lexmark & more.
>>> http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510
>>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/ucIolB/TM
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ~->
>>>
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
>>> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>>
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>>
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>>> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Digital BW] Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by Roger L Sopher

My increasingly senile brain started kicking in (or at least sputtered a
bit)  last night and it struck me that FreeBSD rather than linux might be a
better way to go in setting up a printer box using Roy's Quad.  Since he
developed Quad for OS X, which I believe is a GUI on top of Unix, and
requires a version of BSD to be loaded in order for Quad to run, could one
use the FreeBSD version of unix to do much the same thing, perhaps without
as much of the conversion that Linux might require?

Do any Unix gurus have an opinion?

Somewhere in my box of discarded stuff is a copy of Free BSD and I think I
might give it a whirl.

Roger

Roger L Sopher
rlsopher@...
http:\\deCorrales.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by Justin Florentine

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

6 of one, half dozen of the other.  :)

Honestly, whatever you already have set up is the best choice.  If 
you're experienced using either, then you'll probably be comfortable 
with whatever tweaking Quadtone requires.  Any other question of BSD vs, 
Linux is really an issue regarding everything BUT using the machine as a 
dedicated print spool.   I'll know more once I iron out the install 
process tonight.  Need to pick up some hardware first.

Maybe it's a huge PITA on Linux, but a breeze on BSD.  I wouldn't 
imagine much of a difference, but since I don't have a BSD box, I'd have 
to compare my Linux notes with someone else.  Either way, I'd like to 
get a "B&W on *nix" type paper out of all this.

Roger L Sopher wrote:

|My increasingly senile brain started kicking in (or at least sputtered a
|bit)  last night and it struck me that FreeBSD rather than linux might be a
|better way to go in setting up a printer box using Roy's Quad.  Since he
|developed Quad for OS X, which I believe is a GUI on top of Unix, and
|requires a version of BSD to be loaded in order for Quad to run, could one
|use the FreeBSD version of unix to do much the same thing, perhaps without
|as much of the conversion that Linux might require?
|
|Do any Unix gurus have an opinion?
|
|Somewhere in my box of discarded stuff is a copy of Free BSD and I think I
|might give it a whirl.
|
|Roger
|
|Roger L Sopher
|rlsopher@...
|http:\\deCorrales.com
|
|
|
|
|[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
|
|
|Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
|
|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
|
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unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this 
same page.
|
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keep them short.
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various resources on the homepage.
|
|
|
|
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|
|

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Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by chatzebussi

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@c...> wrote:
> Hello Tom,
> 
> > How do we see your article???
> 
> By going to my web site, _after_ it is written of course <g>.  I'm
> just getting started.  Here's what it's all about...
> 

Clayton

Your are the very man some of us were looking for. Looking forward to
reading your article at

http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

in the not too far away future.

Chatzebussi

P.S. I am still mostly on "BO" with my 2100 and thus no longer plagued
by metamerism of some sort or other (I can perfectly put up with the
brownish hue and the dots in the highlights - horribile dictu - I even
like them, because like you, I feel that there is a certain
structural, pictorial 
quality about BO. And it reminds  me of the good old wet-darkroom days
days, when films
weren't that grainless.- That said, for certain types of photography
it would of course be nice to have a combo with all the qualities you
are
attributing to one of the systems you are evaluating.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by George Hartzell

Roger L Sopher writes:
 > My increasingly senile brain started kicking in (or at least sputtered a
 > bit)  last night and it struck me that FreeBSD rather than linux might be a
 > better way to go in setting up a printer box using Roy's Quad.  Since he
 > developed Quad for OS X, which I believe is a GUI on top of Unix, and
 > requires a version of BSD to be loaded in order for Quad to run, could one
 > use the FreeBSD version of unix to do much the same thing, perhaps without
 > as much of the conversion that Linux might require?
 > 
 > Do any Unix gurus have an opinion?
 > 
 > Somewhere in my box of discarded stuff is a copy of Free BSD and I think I
 > might give it a whirl.

I'm a FreeBSD bigot, and am planning to work on just this thing when I
get back from my current road trip (mid-august).

I don't think that FreeBSD will be easier "because OS X includes large
parts of FreeBSD", since Apple put all kinds of Mac-ish/Next-ish stuff
into the mix which Roy seems to take advantage of (e.g. printcenter
stuff).

I'm also not sure that it's going to be clear how to get all of the
nice options (e.g. choose this curve or that curve, or ...) to show up
from the print server....

I do think that it's easier to get a clean build of the various weird
peices (e.g. cups, gimp, gimp-print) under freebsd than linux.  And
yes, I believe that even though much of that stuff is being created on
various flavors of linux.  The "flavor" problem and version-itis makes
things difficult, and the FreeBSD ports system makes it straight
forward to pull it all together.

g.

QuadToneRIP for Linux/BSD etc

2003-07-30 by Roy Harrington

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, George Hartzell 
<hartzell@k...> wrote:
> Roger L Sopher writes:
>  > My increasingly senile brain started kicking in (or at least sputtered a
>  > bit)  last night and it struck me that FreeBSD rather than linux might be a
>  > better way to go in setting up a printer box using Roy's Quad.  Since he
>  > developed Quad for OS X, which I believe is a GUI on top of Unix, and
>  > requires a version of BSD to be loaded in order for Quad to run, could one
>  > use the FreeBSD version of unix to do much the same thing, perhaps without
>  > as much of the conversion that Linux might require?
>  > 
>  > Do any Unix gurus have an opinion?
>  > 
>  > Somewhere in my box of discarded stuff is a copy of Free BSD and I think I
>  > might give it a whirl.
> 
> I'm a FreeBSD bigot, and am planning to work on just this thing when I
> get back from my current road trip (mid-august).
> 
> I don't think that FreeBSD will be easier "because OS X includes large
> parts of FreeBSD", since Apple put all kinds of Mac-ish/Next-ish stuff
> into the mix which Roy seems to take advantage of (e.g. printcenter
> stuff).
> 
> I'm also not sure that it's going to be clear how to get all of the
> nice options (e.g. choose this curve or that curve, or ...) to show up
> from the print server....
> 
> I do think that it's easier to get a clean build of the various weird
> peices (e.g. cups, gimp, gimp-print) under freebsd than linux.  And
> yes, I believe that even though much of that stuff is being created on
> various flavors of linux.  The "flavor" problem and version-itis makes
> things difficult, and the FreeBSD ports system makes it straight
> forward to pull it all together.
> 
> g.

It's great to see interest in making QuadToneRIP work on Intel based
machines.  There are quite a few flavors of OS'es that have potential
for this.

Maybe I can help with what's dependent on what to make this all work.
I did all the work on Mac OS X so there are some direct ties to that.
They tend to be the most visible since that's the GUI and what the user
sees.  The guts however are very generic Unix -- there are C-programs
and shell scripts.

There is one major dependency -- CUPS.  This is what connects the
whole printing system together.  During printing, Cups is what starts
the QuadTone programs which are Cups Print Filters.  The QuadTone
Cups filter also contains the gimp-print code to actually drive the
printers.  QTR has all that source code included in the distribution
so you done need a separate gimp-print port.

The curve generation scripts and programs are just ordinary programs
that you can execute from the shell.  With OS X I put together a few
double-clickable routines and you can drag files as opposed to typing
shell commands but that is all extra.

PrintCenter and the Print dialogs are certainly OS X specific.  I haven't
modified either of these programs.  They both run off of PPD (Printer
Descriptor) Files that I provide that have all the hooks into QuadToneRIP.
I do know that the CUPS brower interface shows all the QuadTone
options since they are in the PPD file.  There must be some
comparable way in Linux and/or FreeBSD to setup printers and print
using selectable options.  As long as it uses and honors all the info
in the PPD file, I would think it would work very similarly.

Hope this helps.
Roy

Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by johngeyles

> >> A much, much better option will be using 2200 Ultratone carts in
the
> >> 2200 with OPM/IJC.  I've heard word today that the beta 2200
carts  
> >> with
> >> ultratones in them have been released.  Theoretically this would
allow
> >> you to only use one ultratone cart (the yellow channel...light
gray
> >> ink) in a cart in one of the channels.  You can easily tone with
the
> >> Epson OEM inks and light black and either photo black or matte
black.
> >> All you would have to do to switch between color and fantastic BW
is
> >> switch one of the carts...

Robert, can you explain this a little more ?

The UltraTone is MIS product, right, avaliable from inksupply.com ?

So you'd simply replace UC yellow with an UltraTone for B&W ?
But you'd still have to swap out Epson_MK and Epson_PK for glossy
versus matte papers, right ?  What does the UltraTone buy you
that you can't just get from the normal UC load ?  (All this is
assuming OPM/IJC).

Thanks, John

Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by luisvcool

John, this system that you mention is based on replacing the yellow ink cartridge of 
the Epson 2200 with a light gray?  Is that it?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johngeyles" <jge@c...> 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> > >> A much, much better option will be using 2200 Ultratone carts in
> the
> > >> 2200 with OPM/IJC.  I've heard word today that the beta 2200
> carts  
> > >> with
> > >> ultratones in them have been released.  Theoretically this would
> allow
> > >> you to only use one ultratone cart (the yellow channel...light
> gray
> > >> ink) in a cart in one of the channels.  You can easily tone with
> the
> > >> Epson OEM inks and light black and either photo black or matte
> black.
> > >> All you would have to do to switch between color and fantastic BW
> is
> > >> switch one of the carts...
> 
> Robert, can you explain this a little more ?
> 
> The UltraTone is MIS product, right, avaliable from inksupply.com ?
> 
> So you'd simply replace UC yellow with an UltraTone for B&W ?
> But you'd still have to swap out Epson_MK and Epson_PK for glossy
> versus matte papers, right ?  What does the UltraTone buy you
> that you can't just get from the normal UC load ?  (All this is
> assuming OPM/IJC).
> 
> Thanks, John

Re: [Digital BW] Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by Carl Schofield

It might be better to replace the 2100/2200 C or M position cart with  
the UT light gray ink in case you want to use the Y ink for sepia  
toning.  There is no need for either the C or M ink for B&W printing.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 04:07  PM, luisvcool wrote:

> John, this system that you mention is based on replacing the yellow  
> ink cartridge of
> the Epson 2200 with a light gray?  Is that it?
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johngeyles"  
> <jge@c...>
> wrote:
>>
>>>>> A much, much better option will be using 2200 Ultratone carts in
>> the
>>>>> 2200 with OPM/IJC.  I've heard word today that the beta 2200
>> carts
>>>>> with
>>>>> ultratones in them have been released.  Theoretically this would
>> allow
>>>>> you to only use one ultratone cart (the yellow channel...light
>> gray
>>>>> ink) in a cart in one of the channels.  You can easily tone with
>> the
>>>>> Epson OEM inks and light black and either photo black or matte
>> black.
>>>>> All you would have to do to switch between color and fantastic BW
>> is
>>>>> switch one of the carts...
>>
>> Robert, can you explain this a little more ?
>>
>> The UltraTone is MIS product, right, avaliable from inksupply.com ?
>>
>> So you'd simply replace UC yellow with an UltraTone for B&W ?
>> But you'd still have to swap out Epson_MK and Epson_PK for glossy
>> versus matte papers, right ?  What does the UltraTone buy you
>> that you can't just get from the normal UC load ?  (All this is
>> assuming OPM/IJC).
>>
>> Thanks, John
>
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Re: [Digital BW] Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by Robert Morrison

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 12:23  PM, johngeyles wrote:
>

> So you'd simply replace UC yellow with an UltraTone for B&W ?
> But you'd still have to swap out Epson_MK and Epson_PK for glossy
> versus matte papers, right ?  What does the UltraTone buy you
> that you can't just get from the normal UC load ?  (All this is
> assuming OPM/IJC).
>
>
No what you need is the yellow channel gray from the MIS ultratone 
inkset.  This is the lightest gray.  If you replace either cyan or 
magenta in the 2200 (you don't need these for toning...the photo 
magenta and photo cyan and yellow OEM inks are what you want for 
toning).  If you use IJC/OPM, you could then replace the other full 
strength ink (either cyan or magenta) with the 2nd black and you have a 
excellent BW printer that can go to either matte or RC paper stock.

The Ultratone light gray (the yellow channel ink) buys you dotless 
hilights...which the traditional OEM is not capable of in any of the 
output that I've seen from the various drivers on the market.  You 
simply need a lighter gray ink RC compatible ink...and that's what the 
ultratones provide.

Robert

[Digital BW] Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by johngeyles

So you're reommending (once the UltraTone cartridges are available
for the 2200, which should be a month or so), the following load:

INK POSITION		CARTRIDGE
Black			UC Photo Black
Light Black		UC Light Black
Cyan			UC Matte Black
Magenta			UT yellow-position grey
Light Magenta		UC Light Magenta
Light Cyan		UC Light Cyan
Yellow			UC Yellow

for a versatile B&W system ?   So you only need to switch the Cyan- 
and Magenta-position inks to their corresponding UC cartridge to
switch to color mode (and maybe the black, for color on matte paper).

Sorry to be so dense, John

Re: [Digital BW] Re: New System for 2200

2003-07-30 by Robert Morrison

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 03:13  PM, johngeyles wrote:

> So you're reommending (once the UltraTone cartridges are available
> for the 2200, which should be a month or so), the following load:
>
> INK POSITION		CARTRIDGE
> Black			UC Photo Black
> Light Black		UC Light Black
> Cyan			UC Matte Black
> Magenta			UT yellow-position grey
> Light Magenta		UC Light Magenta
> Light Cyan		UC Light Cyan
> Yellow			UC Yellow
>
> for a versatile B&W system ?   So you only need to switch the Cyan-
> and Magenta-position inks to their corresponding UC cartridge to
> switch to color mode (and maybe the black, for color on matte paper).
>
>

Exactly.  Honestly, if you want to switch back and forth to color with 
this printer then the best idea is just to put the UT yellow-position 
grey in the Magenta slot and just switch the blacks as needed.  That 
way you only have to switch one ink to move between BW and color.

Obviously what we need here is a 9 channel printer to get really great 
BW and color on both matte and RC papers...I wouldn't hold my breath 
for epson to produce that however.

Robert

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