Digital BW, The Print

I know that clogs are boring and have been discussed ad nauseum on 
this list.  However, my experience my be useful to someone else.  I 
tried everything I could find on the list or web including two 
applications of Windex on the pads, Windex on the spikes after 
pulling the carts, and too many cleaning cycles and purge prints to 
mention.  I finally gave up and sprang of a new set of Epson carts 
for the 1200.  That did it with two purge prints and a few cleaning 
cycles.

I suspect the problem was that the carts themselves went bad when I 
left them for 2 1/2 weeks.  The problem may have been that the color 
cart was well under 1/2 full.  One last question.  Assuming I reseal 
the epson carts with tape and wrap them well in saran wrap and foil, 
how long should they keep?  It would be nice to have them around if 
this happens again.

All in all, a small price to pay for about a year of increasingly 
pleasing (at least to me) B&W printing.  Thanks to all who offered 
suggestions.

Steve

I forget the exact source, but I think it came from Epson and the 
answer was 6months.

A cheap set from MIS works just as well as the Epson ink.

mark

...Assuming I reseal 
> the epson carts with tape and wrap them well in saran wrap and 
foil, 
> how long should they keep?  It would be nice to have them around if 
> this happens again.
...

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Kobrin" 
<skobrin@h...> wrote:
>Steve:  Having encountered clogging on my 1280 set up with Niagra II 
CIS and Gen Inks I went through the whole process of windex, sucking 
ink through with a syringe, etc.  When I contacted the Tech Support 
they told me that after a year of steady use the foam in the carts 
can break down and cause clogs.  I put in new carts and the 
yellow/cyan clogs cleared up immediately.  I have not seen any other 
discussion around lifespan for carts but maybe the techie was correct.

Bill

A little tip for all of you struggling with CFS setups... I was trying to
get a clog out of a feed tube, and needed to apply some serious suction,
when it hit me: the MityVac! It's a hand-held vacuum pump normally used
to bleed brake lines; I use mine for my motorcycle brakes. So I ran out
to the garage, dusted it off, hooked it up, and it worked like a charm.
So well, in fact, that in my enthusiasm I sucked a 3/4-full 4oz bottle of
ink empty in about five pumps. Whoops! (I just poured it back in). Later,
I had a feed tube with a bunch of air in it, so I pulled the cart out,
put a small nozzle on the MityVac, stuck it in the bottom of the cart,
and squeezed once... voila, a fully-filled tube and cart.

You can get these little gems for about $35 in auto-supply stores or
motorcycle shops. They come with a variety of little nozzles and tubes,
perfect for attaching to all kinds of inky orifices (careful there). And
hey, you might decide to start bleeding your own brake lines, too.

Harry

Steve, when you were using the windex and pushing the fluid 
through the cart nozzle, were you able to have any fluid come thru 
the print head? The reason I ask, today I was printing and 
noticed a change in the print half way thru printing. I ran a test 
and the yellow slot printed absolutley nothing. I ran 20 or so 
cleaning cycles and got nothing. I pushed fluid thru the yellow 
slot nozzle and had fluid come out of the print head. The ink 
cartrage wasn't clogged either. I'm wondering If I may need a 
new cart system. My inks were low when I made the print, but 
had enough ink to do the print. Another thought also was that the 
yellow ink just ran out. I'm awaiting a color cartriage to see if the 
pigment just ran out or if I'm in a bigger jam than I think. I need 
40-50 prints by next Saturday. Nothing like stress.
-Dean







--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"Stephen Kobrin" <skobrin@h...> wrote:
> I know that clogs are boring and have been discussed ad 
nauseum on 
> this list.  However, my experience my be useful to someone 
else.  I 
> tried everything I could find on the list or web including two 
> applications of Windex on the pads, Windex on the spikes after 
> pulling the carts, and too many cleaning cycles and purge 
prints to 
> mention.  I finally gave up and sprang of a new set of Epson 
carts 
> for the 1200.  That did it with two purge prints and a few 
cleaning 
> cycles.
> 
> I suspect the problem was that the carts themselves went bad 
when I 
> left them for 2 1/2 weeks.  The problem may have been that the 
color 
> cart was well under 1/2 full.  One last question.  Assuming I 
reseal 
> the epson carts with tape and wrap them well in saran wrap 
and foil, 
> how long should they keep?  It would be nice to have them 
around if 
> this happens again.
> 
> All in all, a small price to pay for about a year of increasingly 
> pleasing (at least to me) B&W printing.  Thanks to all who 
offered 

> suggestions.
> 
> Steve

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dizzyashell2003"
<dizzyashell@d...> wrote:
<snip>

 I ran 20 or so 
> cleaning cycles and got nothing. <snip>

> -Dean

Sorry to jump into the thread and I don't know which printer you have,
but my advice is never to run more than 3-4 cleaning cycles in a row.
Then turn the printer off for minimum 6 hours...or if you must try for
more cleaning cycles, run a quick purge pattern/print or two first.
But I don't recomend second method.

After three cycles or so, the ink gets sucked too quickly/much out of
the bottom of nozzle, leaving none in printhead. It then needs time
for gravity to replace the ink in head- else you get your nozzle check
disapearing more and more.

> 
>
 
and see comments below...

> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
> "Stephen Kobrin" <skobrin@h...> wrote:
<snip>

> > I suspect the problem was that the carts themselves went bad 
> when I 
> > left them for 2 1/2 weeks.

In an 1280, I found that I needed to turn printer on, run a MIS purge
pattern and nozzle check about once a week (for OEM carts) and at
least once a DAY for the old MIS ink to minimise clogs. From previous
posts (none lately though), some will remember that I live in Colorado
where it becomes very dry in winter months (down to 20% RH). I have
clogging issues even with OEM carts with 1280 and 1160. Curiously,
2200 is about 50 times better behaved. I run a good humidifier around
45% humidity, but still have some problems. I should also say I have
no experience with running the new, better UT type inks- just the old
MIS and piezoBW stuff.

  The problem may have been that the 
> color 
> > cart was well under 1/2 full.

Maybe, but I never personally found clogging to track level of ink in
cart in 1-2 years of keeping tabs. As long as ink was not below chip
parameters.

  One last question.  Assuming I 
> reseal 
> > the epson carts with tape and wrap them well in saran wrap 
> and foil, 
> > how long should they keep?

Epson told me about 6 months for 1280, but I don't see the saran
wrap/foil thing as being nessecary. I think I personally reused 1280
carts up to 4 months. In my 1160's, I couldn't re-use carts very well
because they didn't seal on removing-one use only, or two or three
uses with some trouble. When I put them back in it was hell. The
bottom ports of Epson 1280 carts will seal themselves- no problem,
three reuses or so roughly. For a 1200, I don't know.
Jim Hayes 

  <snip>
> > 
> > Steve

Hi Jim,

   I was told not to do that either after I did it.  I'm waiting on a new 
color cartridge for my Epson 1200.  Is it possible the one color 
could have been out of ink before the other colors. All of my color 
liders are set the same. There is no more of one color than the 
others. It was wierd, half way thru the print the tonality changed, 
nothing came out of the yellow port during the test pattern. I'm 
hoping the windex added to the pad helps. I'm stuck big time if it 
doesn't.
Thanks for the input.
-Dean
www.deanmbeattiephoto.com




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jim 
hayes" <jimhayes@f...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"dizzyashell2003"
> <dizzyashell@d...> wrote:
> <snip>
> 
>  I ran 20 or so 
> > cleaning cycles and got nothing. <snip>
> 
> > -Dean
> 
> Sorry to jump into the thread and I don't know which printer you 
have,
> but my advice is never to run more than 3-4 cleaning cycles in 
a row.
> Then turn the printer off for minimum 6 hours...or if you must try 
for
> more cleaning cycles, run a quick purge pattern/print or two 
first.
> But I don't recomend second method.
> 
> After three cycles or so, the ink gets sucked too quickly/much 
out of
> the bottom of nozzle, leaving none in printhead. It then needs 
time
> for gravity to replace the ink in head- else you get your nozzle 
check
> disapearing more and more.
> 
> > 
> >
>  
> and see comments below...
> 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
> > "Stephen Kobrin" <skobrin@h...> wrote:
> <snip>
> 
> > > I suspect the problem was that the carts themselves went 
bad 
> > when I 
> > > left them for 2 1/2 weeks.
> 
> In an 1280, I found that I needed to turn printer on, run a MIS 
purge
> pattern and nozzle check about once a week (for OEM carts) 
and at
> least once a DAY for the old MIS ink to minimise clogs. From 
previous
> posts (none lately though), some will remember that I live in 
Colorado
> where it becomes very dry in winter months (down to 20% RH). 
I have
> clogging issues even with OEM carts with 1280 and 1160. 
Curiously,
> 2200 is about 50 times better behaved. I run a good humidifier 
around
> 45% humidity, but still have some problems. I should also say 
I have
> no experience with running the new, better UT type inks- just 
the old
> MIS and piezoBW stuff.
> 
>   The problem may have been that the 
> > color 
> > > cart was well under 1/2 full.
> 
> Maybe, but I never personally found clogging to track level of ink 
in
> cart in 1-2 years of keeping tabs. As long as ink was not below 
chip
> parameters.
> 
>   One last question.  Assuming I 
> > reseal 
> > > the epson carts with tape and wrap them well in saran 
wrap 
> > and foil, 
> > > how long should they keep?
> 
> Epson told me about 6 months for 1280, but I don't see the 
saran
> wrap/foil thing as being nessecary. I think I personally reused 
1280
> carts up to 4 months. In my 1160's, I couldn't re-use carts very 
well
> because they didn't seal on removing-one use only, or two or 
three
> uses with some trouble. When I put them back in it was hell. 
The
> bottom ports of Epson 1280 carts will seal themselves- no 
problem,

> three reuses or so roughly. For a 1200, I don't know.
> Jim Hayes 
> 
>   <snip>
> > > 
> > > Steve

Hi Jim,

   I was told not to do that either after I did it.  I'm waiting on a new 
color cartridge for my Epson 1200.  Is it possible the one color 
could have been out of ink before the other colors. All of my color 
liders are set the same. There is no more of one color than the 
others. It was wierd, half way thru the print the tonality changed, 
nothing came out of the yellow port during the test pattern. I'm 
hoping the windex added to the pad helps. I'm stuck big time if it 
doesn't.
Thanks for the input.
-Dean
www.deanmbeattiephoto.com




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jim 
hayes" <jimhayes@f...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"dizzyashell2003"
> <dizzyashell@d...> wrote:
> <snip>
> 
>  I ran 20 or so 
> > cleaning cycles and got nothing. <snip>
> 
> > -Dean
> 
> Sorry to jump into the thread and I don't know which printer you 
have,
> but my advice is never to run more than 3-4 cleaning cycles in 
a row.
> Then turn the printer off for minimum 6 hours...or if you must try 
for
> more cleaning cycles, run a quick purge pattern/print or two 
first.
> But I don't recomend second method.
> 
> After three cycles or so, the ink gets sucked too quickly/much 
out of
> the bottom of nozzle, leaving none in printhead. It then needs 
time
> for gravity to replace the ink in head- else you get your nozzle 
check
> disapearing more and more.
> 
> > 
> >
>  
> and see comments below...
> 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
> > "Stephen Kobrin" <skobrin@h...> wrote:
> <snip>
> 
> > > I suspect the problem was that the carts themselves went 
bad 
> > when I 
> > > left them for 2 1/2 weeks.
> 
> In an 1280, I found that I needed to turn printer on, run a MIS 
purge
> pattern and nozzle check about once a week (for OEM carts) 
and at
> least once a DAY for the old MIS ink to minimise clogs. From 
previous
> posts (none lately though), some will remember that I live in 
Colorado
> where it becomes very dry in winter months (down to 20% RH). 
I have
> clogging issues even with OEM carts with 1280 and 1160. 
Curiously,
> 2200 is about 50 times better behaved. I run a good humidifier 
around
> 45% humidity, but still have some problems. I should also say 
I have
> no experience with running the new, better UT type inks- just 
the old
> MIS and piezoBW stuff.
> 
>   The problem may have been that the 
> > color 
> > > cart was well under 1/2 full.
> 
> Maybe, but I never personally found clogging to track level of ink 
in
> cart in 1-2 years of keeping tabs. As long as ink was not below 
chip
> parameters.
> 
>   One last question.  Assuming I 
> > reseal 
> > > the epson carts with tape and wrap them well in saran 
wrap 
> > and foil, 
> > > how long should they keep?
> 
> Epson told me about 6 months for 1280, but I don't see the 
saran
> wrap/foil thing as being nessecary. I think I personally reused 
1280
> carts up to 4 months. In my 1160's, I couldn't re-use carts very 
well
> because they didn't seal on removing-one use only, or two or 
three
> uses with some trouble. When I put them back in it was hell. 
The
> bottom ports of Epson 1280 carts will seal themselves- no 
problem,

> three reuses or so roughly. For a 1200, I don't know.
> Jim Hayes 
> 
>   <snip>
> > > 
> > > Steve

* -----Original Message-----
* From: Dean Beattie [mailto:dizzyashell@deanmbeattiephoto.com] 
* Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 9:09 PM
* To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
* Subject: [Digital BW] Re: clog from hell
* 
* 
* Hi Jim,
* 
*    I was told not to do that either after I did it.  I'm 
* waiting on a new 
* color cartridge for my Epson 1200.  Is it possible the one color 
* could have been out of ink before the other colors. All of my color 
* liders are set the same. There is no more of one color than the 
* others. It was wierd, half way thru the print the tonality changed, 
* nothing came out of the yellow port during the test pattern. I'm 
* hoping the windex added to the pad helps. I'm stuck big time if it 
* doesn't.

Dean,

I had an Epson 1200. You cannot rely on the on-screen readouts of ink levels
that the Epson Print Monitor software displays. The levels shown are based
upon keeping a count of how many pages you have printed since you last
changed cartridges and estimating how much ink has been used. This is not
very accurate. In the color cartridge with 5 ink positions one of them is
going to run out before the others and it is usually the Yellow.

With the 6-color photo printers where the Cyan and Magenta are both split
between over two positions (Cyan and Photo Cyan; Magenta and Photo Magenta)
there is not enough Yellow ink to keep up.

Even with the chipped cartridges in the 1270 and 1280 I have had the Yellow
run dry when the Print Monitor indicated there was still ink in the
cartridge. In general I just ignore the Print Monitor and run the cartridges
until one position stops printing.

I would guess that you just ran out of Yellow and a new cartridge will get
you going again.

Martin Wesley
http://www.carolyn.cc/Guests/MartinWesley/pages/MW_01.html
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

Hi Wesley,

    Thanks for the info. My boss does allot of digital printing, he is the one I got the 
1220 from, and he said the same thing about running out of yellow. I printed 3 15" x 
10" prints the day before for a show in December and was all ready to print my entire 
portfolio and 1.5 prints into it the tonal ranges changed drastically and I pretty much 
paniced cause I could't get any sort of ink in test from the yellow. I thought it could a 
clog (still maybe, have to wait for the new ink cartridge) but I doubt it is clogged (I'm 
hoping). I need some prints to show a gallery curator in a week.
Thanks very much for the info.
-Dean
www.deanmbeattiephoto.com
Fine Art Black and White Photography







--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:

> * -----Original Message-----
> * From: Dean Beattie [mailto:dizzyashell@d...] 
> * Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 9:09 PM
> * To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> * Subject: [Digital BW] Re: clog from hell
> * 
> * 
> * Hi Jim,
> * 
> *    I was told not to do that either after I did it.  I'm 
> * waiting on a new 
> * color cartridge for my Epson 1200.  Is it possible the one color 
> * could have been out of ink before the other colors. All of my color 
> * liders are set the same. There is no more of one color than the 
> * others. It was wierd, half way thru the print the tonality changed, 
> * nothing came out of the yellow port during the test pattern. I'm 
> * hoping the windex added to the pad helps. I'm stuck big time if it 
> * doesn't.
> 
> Dean,
> 
> I had an Epson 1200. You cannot rely on the on-screen readouts of ink levels
> that the Epson Print Monitor software displays. The levels shown are based
> upon keeping a count of how many pages you have printed since you last
> changed cartridges and estimating how much ink has been used. This is not
> very accurate. In the color cartridge with 5 ink positions one of them is
> going to run out before the others and it is usually the Yellow.
> 
> With the 6-color photo printers where the Cyan and Magenta are both split
> between over two positions (Cyan and Photo Cyan; Magenta and Photo Magenta)
> there is not enough Yellow ink to keep up.
> 
> Even with the chipped cartridges in the 1270 and 1280 I have had the Yellow
> run dry when the Print Monitor indicated there was still ink in the
> cartridge. In general I just ignore the Print Monitor and run the cartridges
> until one position stops printing.
> 
> I would guess that you just ran out of Yellow and a new cartridge will get
> you going again.
> 
> Martin Wesley
> http://www.carolyn.cc/Guests/MartinWesley/pages/MW_01.html
> http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

I'm sorry, I meant Mr. Wesley. Its been a long day. I looked at both links you had 
attached, great work my friend. Take care and thanks once again for the info.
-Dean
www.deanmbeattiephoto.com
Fine Art Black and White Photography



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:

> * -----Original Message-----
> * From: Dean Beattie [mailto:dizzyashell@d...] 
> * Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 9:09 PM
> * To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> * Subject: [Digital BW] Re: clog from hell
> * 
> * 
> * Hi Jim,
> * 
> *    I was told not to do that either after I did it.  I'm 
> * waiting on a new 
> * color cartridge for my Epson 1200.  Is it possible the one color 
> * could have been out of ink before the other colors. All of my color 
> * liders are set the same. There is no more of one color than the 
> * others. It was wierd, half way thru the print the tonality changed, 
> * nothing came out of the yellow port during the test pattern. I'm 
> * hoping the windex added to the pad helps. I'm stuck big time if it 
> * doesn't.
> 
> Dean,
> 
> I had an Epson 1200. You cannot rely on the on-screen readouts of ink levels
> that the Epson Print Monitor software displays. The levels shown are based
> upon keeping a count of how many pages you have printed since you last
> changed cartridges and estimating how much ink has been used. This is not
> very accurate. In the color cartridge with 5 ink positions one of them is
> going to run out before the others and it is usually the Yellow.
> 
> With the 6-color photo printers where the Cyan and Magenta are both split
> between over two positions (Cyan and Photo Cyan; Magenta and Photo Magenta)
> there is not enough Yellow ink to keep up.
> 
> Even with the chipped cartridges in the 1270 and 1280 I have had the Yellow
> run dry when the Print Monitor indicated there was still ink in the
> cartridge. In general I just ignore the Print Monitor and run the cartridges
> until one position stops printing.
> 
> I would guess that you just ran out of Yellow and a new cartridge will get
> you going again.
> 
> Martin Wesley
> http://www.carolyn.cc/Guests/MartinWesley/pages/MW_01.html
> http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

This DID happen once to me...MIS was filling carts and I bought a set
of "prefilled" carts of quatones. One of the chambers in the "color"
cart ran out prematurely. Yet the chip reported 25% or more left.

The particular grey position just ran out and went dry, was the quite
simple symptom. I got another cart in there fast to avoid drying out
of head. If you can get something in there, either self-filled, Epson,
or cleaning cart it might help.

I've never seen an Epson cart do this, and never one I vacuum filled
myself.
Jim Hayes



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Beattie"
<dizzyashell@d...> wrote:
> Hi Jim,
> 
>    I was told not to do that either after I did it.  I'm waiting on
a new 

> color cartridge for my Epson 1200.  Is it possible the one color 
> could have been out of ink before the other colors. All of my color 
> liders are set the same. There is no more of one color than the 
> others. 
> >   <snip>
> > > > 
> > > > Steve

Having read Martin's reply, I can see wisdom in this, esp for
non-chipped printers.

I just never had an Epson cart or a vacuum filled-by-me cart run out
in this manner for the 1280 chipped printer. I don't know if the ratio
of ink used by each chamber tilts toward the Y position when using the
new UT inks or not, the old MIS quads only gave me this problem the
one time I mentioned when I bought prefilled from MIS. A
coincidence...I don't know.
Jim Hayes 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jim hayes"
<jimhayes@f...> wrote:

> This DID happen once to me...MIS was filling carts and I bought a set
> of "prefilled" carts of quatones. One of the chambers in the "color"
> cart ran out prematurely. Yet the chip reported 25% or more left.
> 
> The particular grey position just ran out and went dry, was the quite
> simple symptom. I got another cart in there fast to avoid drying out
> of head. If you can get something in there, either self-filled, Epson,
> or cleaning cart it might help.
> 
> I've never seen an Epson cart do this, and never one I vacuum filled
> myself.
> Jim Hayes
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Beattie"
> <dizzyashell@d...> wrote:
> > Hi Jim,
> > 
> >    I was told not to do that either after I did it.  I'm waiting on
> a new 
> > color cartridge for my Epson 1200.  Is it possible the one color 
> > could have been out of ink before the other colors. All of my color 
> > liders are set the same. There is no more of one color than the 
> > others. 
> > >   <snip>
> > > > > 
> > > > > Steve