Digital BW, The Print

Paul or anyone else...

Any thoughts about a UT based replacement to the VM-S inkset?
-- 

 

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Keith,

You wrote:

>Any thoughts about a UT based replacement to the VM-S inkset?

How strange you should ask.

Note that, I believe, a dual-toner rip is or should be out soon.  Once there
is individual control of the jets, a hextone machine can tone both
directions -- cool and sepia.   The Bowhaus system is probably going to be
able to do this.

Also, I've made a UT-Sepia toner (that MIS has) for this and for quads.  On
quads this makes a UT-vm-s that goes from warm (UT base ink) to sepia --
which, to me means a dedicated sepia print that I'm not going to bother
with.

I do think the Epson driver might support a state-of-the-art vm-s up-grade,
and I have started down that path already.

Since I'm still most interested in matte papers, I'm thinking of an
Eboni-based, matte-paper-only neutral/selenium gray based ink.  Eboni is
less warm than the UT black inks.  As such less color pigment is needed to
make it into a neutral-toned ink.  I just did some initial fade testing on
an Eboni-based cyan-position ink.  It did very well indeed.  In past initial
testing Eboni black has beaten all the competing black inks I've tested on
matte paper.  So, this black with less color pigment should make a superior
neutral ink -- and an excellent base gray for a new vm-s. ("Eboni-VM-S"?)

I'll probably change the variable-tone approach for my current hextone
printers (1280 and 7500).  I'll do some testing on my 1160, but for the next
VM-S, I'm leaving quads behind.  (It's been good.)  There will be new
densities, so the old curves will not work.  The 1280 and 7500 are the only
drivers I'll support.   (They appear to be useable in the 1290, 7xxx and
9xxx machines.)

These plans are somewhat vague, but that is the direction I'm migrating.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul,

 As you know, I'm interested in the selenium and cool/neutral b&w 
prints so i'm very interested in the UT inks in this regard. I use a 
1280 and am just waiting for the UT inks to b offered in the pre-
filled cartridges. Your comments about a selenium hexset is of great 
interest. I'm not into this commercially so the 1280 printer is just 
fine 4 my purposes. Most of my images wud work well with a selenium 
tone or a cool/neutral look. 
 Did u ever have the opportunity 2 try the UT inks on a canvas paper? 
I've asked this group a couple of times but no one seems 2 b using 
canvas paper at all. Thanks for yur patience and help.



                      Tim










 DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:

> Keith,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> >Any thoughts about a UT based replacement to the VM-S inkset?
> 
> How strange you should ask.

Tim,

>... I'm interested in the selenium and cool/neutral b&w
>prints so i'm very interested in the UT inks in this regard. I use a
>1280 and am just waiting for the UT inks to b offered in the pre-
>filled cartridges.

MIS should have 1280 carts in a week or so.  I recommend 1280 users stick
with carts for a while.

> Did u ever have the opportunity 2 try the UT inks on a canvas paper?

No.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
_____________________________




 DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Keith,
>
> You wrote:
>
> >Any thoughts about a UT based replacement to the VM-S inkset?
>
> How strange you should ask.




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Paul Roark wrote:

>
> MIS should have 1280 carts in a week or so.  I recommend 1280 users stick
> with carts for a while.
>

>
Hi Paul,
Where is the catch?  I was researching the options for a long time 
before I got my MIS CIS UT set for my 1280.
Should I understand that I would be better off if I didn't go for the 
CIS option.  Could you elaborate a bit on it?
I would appreciate that.  So far I am happy with my system running with 
your curves.  Should I expect any problems?
Thanks,
Jack

_________________________________________________
Jack M Kucy
JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
917-991-2096     jmk@...
Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
_________________________________________________
...a riveder le stelle

Jack,

>> MIS should have 1280 carts in a week or so.  I recommend 1280 users stick
>> with carts for a while.
>

>Where is the catch?  I was researching the options for a long time
>before I got my MIS CIS UT set for my 1280.
>Should I understand that I would be better off if I didn't go for the
>CIS option.  Could you elaborate a bit on it?

The current approach works very well and will, I assume, be out there for
some time.

The catch is that there are some otherwise "good" RC papers that are too
warm in the shadows; the current toner is not strong enough to cool them
down.  I may brew a stronger toner that will be able to deal with these warm
shadow areas.  Quads and the older hextones really can't take a stronger
toner without showing dots.  However, the 1280/90 can.  So I may make a
special UT-1280 toner set that can deal with those warm RC papers.  This
should not affect the availability of the current UT toner, which I will
continue to use in my 7500.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks for clearing it out.
Jack

Paul Roark wrote:

> Jack,
>
> >> MIS should have 1280 carts in a week or so.  I recommend 1280 users 
> stick
> >> with carts for a while.
> >
>
> >Where is the catch?  I was researching the options for a long time
> >before I got my MIS CIS UT set for my 1280.
> >Should I understand that I would be better off if I didn't go for the
> >CIS option.  Could you elaborate a bit on it?
>
> The current approach works very well and will, I assume, be out there for
> some time.
>
> The catch is that there are some otherwise "good" RC papers that are too
> warm in the shadows; the current toner is not strong enough to cool them
> down.  I may brew a stronger toner that will be able to deal with 
> these warm
> shadow areas.  Quads and the older hextones really can't take a stronger
> toner without showing dots.  However, the 1280/90 can.  So I may make a
> special UT-1280 toner set that can deal with those warm RC papers.  This
> should not affect the availability of the current UT toner, which I will
> continue to use in my 7500.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
>

Paul Roark wrote:

>Note that, I believe, a dual-toner rip is or should be out soon.  Once there
>is individual control of the jets, a hextone machine can tone both
>directions -- cool and sepia.   The Bowhaus system is probably going to be
>able to do this.
>
>  
>

Not to mention the potential money Bowhaus could make by releasing a 
utility allowing users  to run cleaning cycles on the individual jets 
that might be clogged - they could make a mint off the latter simply by 
allowing end-users to clear clogs without wasting tons of ink

Imagine a scenario where you print a Bowhaus nozzle check patter and 
then simply tell software in the driver to clear those jets..   The 
savings in ink could be immense over the standard cleaning cycles..  Not 
to mention that if it was implemented to purge onto paper running 
through the machine, instead of onto the cleaning pads, you wouldn't 
increment the damn "self-destruct" counter of the printer..


If you know the folks at Bowhaus and they haven't considered this, feel 
free to forward the suggestion to them..



 

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Paul Roark wrote:

>Since I'm still most interested in matte papers, I'm thinking of an
>Eboni-based, matte-paper-only neutral/selenium gray based ink.  Eboni is
>less warm than the UT black inks.  As such less color pigment is needed to
>make it into a neutral-toned ink.  I just did some initial fade testing on
>an Eboni-based cyan-position ink.  It did very well indeed.  In past initial
>testing Eboni black has beaten all the competing black inks I've tested on
>matte paper.  So, this black with less color pigment should make a superior
>neutral ink -- and an excellent base gray for a new vm-s. ("Eboni-VM-S"?)
>  
>
And an "Eboni-VM-Se" (since 'Se' is the atomic symbol for Selenium)? 

>I'll probably change the variable-tone approach for my current hextone
>printers (1280 and 7500).  I'll do some testing on my 1160, but for the next
>VM-S, I'm leaving quads behind.  (It's been good.)  There will be new
>densities, so the old curves will not work.  The 1280 and 7500 are the only
>drivers I'll support.   (They appear to be useable in the 1290, 7xxx and
>9xxx machines.)
>  
>
And the 1280 driver seems to be usable on the 1270 and perhaps even 
2000P's as well..


 

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

>Paul Roark wrote:

>>Since I'm still most interested in matte papers, I'm thinking of an
>>Eboni-based, matte-paper-only neutral/selenium gray based ink.  Eboni is
>>less warm than the UT black inks.  As such less color pigment is needed to
>>make it into a neutral-toned ink.  I just did some initial fade testing on
>>an Eboni-based cyan-position ink.  It did very well indeed.  In past
initial
>>testing Eboni black has beaten all the competing black inks I've tested on
>>matte paper.  So, this black with less color pigment should make a
superior
>>neutral ink -- and an excellent base gray for a new vm-s. ("Eboni-VM-S"?)

Keith wrote:

>And an "Eboni-VM-Se" (since 'Se' is the atomic symbol for Selenium)?

Yes, the neutral gray would be a VM-Se, of sorts.

The cyan will probably be the same density as the current VM and Piezo/FS
cyans, so it would also be easy to make one of those inksets from the new
Eboni-Selenium cyan.  I'll use the standard, readily-available clear base
from MIS and will probably publish the formula so that all will be able to
have a rock solid neutral inkset.  There is a dual source for Eboni (aka
Cone Museum, from what I can tell) so that consumers should not have to
worry about paying excessive rent to any seller.  Anyone who can develop
film will, I hope, be able to make this rock solid inkset for very little
cost.

Even though I'll probably make new toners for the 1280, the existing sepia
toner will probably work on the new base gray ink.  So, all the printers
that run or can run the current vm-s will be able to benefit from an
improved base gray ink.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul,

How about a Selenium set for 4 color printers aka Epson 3000,
or the formula for making such, please !

Best,
Alex



> 
> >Paul Roark wrote:
> 
> >>Since I'm still most interested in matte papers, I'm thinking of 
an
> >>Eboni-based, matte-paper-only neutral/selenium gray based ink.  
Eboni is
> >>less warm than the UT black inks.  As such less color pigment is 
needed to
> >>make it into a neutral-toned ink.

Alex,

>How about a Selenium set for 4 color printers aka Epson 3000,
>or the formula for making such, please !

I suspect that will also result from the mixing effort.  Once you've done a
few of these and get the tones right in the cyan position ink, the rest of
the positions are simple.  I have enough graphs that one data point and
extrapolation based on the appropriate graph of similar inks usually hits
within the mixing tolerances.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

__________________________


>
> >Paul Roark wrote:
>
> >>Since I'm still most interested in matte papers, I'm thinking of
an
> >>Eboni-based, matte-paper-only neutral/selenium gray based ink.
Eboni is
> >>less warm than the UT black inks.  As such less color pigment is
needed to
> >>make it into a neutral-toned ink.



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- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
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