Digital BW, The Print

Well, I took Marks and Jerrys advice to have a couple of professional 
profiles made, as I wasn't able to get Color Visions profiler program 
to come close to a neutral b&w using color inks.  I had Chromatics in 
Nashville do the profiles for LPM and Somerset enhanced Velvet, and 
was shocked to see that the neutral colors are still way off.  I will 
let the lab know tomorrow that they really missed this time.  Asside 
from things still looking green or cyan, both papers look posterized 
and solorized.  Much worse than no profile.
Jerry , you said that you were getting neutral b&w using the MIS 
color pigs, can you suggest someone to make profiles for me, or Where 
did you have your profilemade.  I am using the MIS color pigs with 
the DD black.  Is their something flawed with that inkset??
I had beautiful results with the Epson OEM dyes, and since I switched 
to this new inkset, nothing but trouble.. I thought the professional 
profiles would get me in the ballpark??
Do I have to go back to OEM dyes??  I really want the flexiblity of 
printing color, b&w or sepia / selenium tones.
Any help or siggestions would be appreciated.
I'm using a 1280 printer.
Thanks
David

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., daschkenas@a... 
wrote:
Asside 
> from things still looking green or cyan, both papers look 
posterized 
> and solorized.  Much worse than no profile.

You should make a record of all of your settings: ColorSync 
control panel, Epson print dialogue box, PageSetup, PS6 
ColorSettings box, etc. and post them. Feel free to post to the 
board, or to me off-list. If you are that far off, hopefully it's 
something else causing the problem.

I've seen many profiles come out of that lab, and they're all very 
close. Yet, for the record, I've NEVER seen a 21-step wedge have  
all 21 chips completely and totally neutral. Thus, the quadsets, 
but then, your gamut is severely restricted if you want to do 
sepia-type toning.

Make up that Settings List and post it and we'll get you going; no 
big deal...

-Mark Tucker, http://marktucker.com

I think Mark is right, it may be a settings problem. I've had several and semi custom color profiles, and made many 
ColorVision Profiler Pro profiles. Though grayscale is never perfect, and varies a lot between profiles, I've never seen them 
as bad as you are describing. I'd check out all the possibilities before blowing more dollars on more profiles.
Tyler

Thanks to all for your input.  I will try and post the info that mark 
asked for within a day.  I have to ask my son, who's helping me 
this where to find the colorsync control box, etc.
I will be back in touch.
And Jerry, if need be, could you post an email address for 
CDTobie.
Thanks
David

on 10/4/01 8:42 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> I think Mark is right, it may be a settings problem.

One big thing to keep in mind here is not just what setting you are using to
apply the profile, but also that those settings should relate to how you
printed the color chart in the first place. I don't know the best way to
describe the whole flow quickly, but when you do post your settings, see if
you can also post what settings you used to print the chart the profile was
built off of. There needs to be a certain correlation.

Todd

Well Mark, here is the info you asked for, thanfully, I was able to 
get faster than I thought.
By the way, most of this stuff, I didn't know existed a few minutes 
ago.
COLOR SYNC CONTROL PANEL
Colorsynce  Profiles for standard devices
Input  Generic RGB
Display  ColorVision monitar spyder photo cal generated profile
OUT   Generic RGB
Profiler  Generic CMYK Profile

DEFAULT PROFILES FOR DOCUMENTS
RGB Default  Generic RGB Profile
CMYK  "           Generic CMYK Default
Gray     "            Generic Gray Profile
Lab        "          Generic Lab Default
CMYK  Automatic
EPSON PRINT DIALOGUE BOX
Photo 1440 dpi
Colorsync
Media Matte Paper Heavyweight
Mode: Custom {nothing selected}
Source Space: Document Adobe RGB (1998)
ADVANCED    Colorsync
Profile (the one just made for me)
Rendering Intent  Perceptual
Gamma 1.8
Print quality 1440 dpi
Ink  color
High Speed   Off
Smooth Off
PS6 Color setting box
Advanced mode, (checked)
Working spaces
RGB  Adobe RGB 1998
CMYK  US Web Coated (swop)v2
Gray  Gray gamma 2.2
Spot  Dot gain  20%
COLOR MANAGEMENT POLICIES
RGB Convert to working RGB
CMYK  Convert to working CMYK
Gray  Convert to working Gray
PROFILE MISMATCHES: All checked, ask when opening, & 
pasting
MISSING PROFILES  Ask when Opening
CONVERSION OPTIONS
Engine Adobe (ACE)
Intent Perceptual
checked..Use black point compensation
checked  Use dither (8 bit channel)
Advanced controls
Desaturate Monitar colors by 20%
Blend RGB using gamma 1.00

Whew, I think thats everything.
Mark and others, who ever helps, I'll send a print as a thank you!
Thanks
David

Todd, When I printed the test targets, all of the settings listed in 
my last post were what was set for the printing, with the 
exception of
No Color management in profile.
Thanks
David

on 10/4/01 10:34 PM, daschkenas@... wrote:

> Todd, When I printed the test targets, all of the settings listed in
> my last post were what was set for the printing, with the
> exception of
> No Color management in profile.
> Thanks
> David

David,

Unless I my mind is failing me (which is always a danger, but particularly
here as different printers and different versions of PS make for different
printer dialog choices) I have good news and bad news. The good news is you
did everything right, the bad news is you did everything right but the
profile isn't giving good results.

Here is an article by Bruce Fraser on the three ways to apply a profile.
Yours (through Colorsync) is one of them. I once tried all three ways once
and got identical results, but I have heard from another person that they
did not get as good results going through Colorsync because the conversion
engine it uses (which is often set to "auto" I think, so you often don't
know which engine it is even using) is not as good as Adobes. Really if
there were a difference I'd expect it to be rather slight, but you might as
well try.

http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/2440.html

Todd

Thanks Mark, and other with suggestions, I will try them out and let 
you know.
RE:
Gallery show, the Plexigalss vs. glass is a good idea, both in terms 
of weight and safety from breakage.
David

Epson Archival, Torchon/Royal Riviera/Museum Parchment,  and MIS
Archival Pigment inks.

Yes.

> Which paper(s) did you have CD profile?  Are you able to get neutral BW and
> good color from this combination?
> 
> Helene
> 
> > I had CD Tobie do them, and they are great.  I'm using MIS pigment
> > Archival inks with Double Density Black now. At first I had Generations
> > "Beta, or "Enhanced" black". There is no visible difference between the
> > two blacks. But I'm using an 1160 for my color prints.
> >
> 
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> 
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