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gallery results (RANT)

gallery results (RANT)

2001-10-06 by Julian Thomas

Hi all,
Just thought i'd share my first (and last) foray into the pure art world. I
got to the gallery and felt that 'sinking' feeling. On one wall there was a
carpet covered brick, a frame with two blank pieces of white paper, and on
the other  an un-painted door frame (not dissing the art, just thinking 'how
the fuck is my stuff going to fit here').
Saw the guy who looked at my stuff (we don't do photography here, but i was
thinking of dabbling).
Q: How many of each do you make?
A: In this series 10.
Q: Oh no, that is no good, there is an 'international cannon' that for a
piece to be a unique work, there can only be 4 copies. Why is this paper
matte?
A: Because I use a German paper that I like the look of and I like th
ecolour I get with the ink.
Q: Ink?
A: (description of piezo)
Q: Does it go blue?
A: No
Q: Does anyone else use this system and sell work through art galleries?
A: In US and UK yes, Spain, I don't know.
Q: This is all small, we'd need prints 3m by 4m, could you do that... Could
you do photographs that look more like Barcelona?
A !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fuck me
Julian

-----------------------------------
Julian Thomas
Bruc 168-6-1
08037 Barcelona

Gallery at http://www.mwords.co.uk/galleryGuests.htm#
and
http://www.borderless-photos.de/jthomas/jthomas-01.html

tfno 679676321

Re: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)

2001-10-06 by Jennifer Drucker

Julian, don't give up!!!!  I have to say that I was laughing while reading this.  The gallery owner here is a complete 'snob'.  Much to into himself and his assumed 'image' than anything else.  They aren't all like that.  Really.  It took me a long time (I am not quite over it) to get over the 'art world' attitude.  You should have the exact attitude you had leaving that interview, but it shouldn't deter you from trying again.

When someone questions my technique, I tend to get into a heated battle about it.  "Do you want to talk about the image, about the philosophy behind it... fine, but I will not talk about technique before talking about the image".  The technique is only as important as it relates to the aesthetic of the image.  The technique should ALWAYS take a back seat unless it is used, and I mean outright used (Rauchenberg using human hair), to evoke a feeling, to lend itself to the aesthetic.

You should feel very proud that a gallery owner (snob or not) were effected by the aesthetic of your images.  It is very rare that a gallery comes to you.... very rare.  Every experience, positive or negative will help you as an artist... this particular experience will have you laughing a year from now... trust me :)

- Jennifer :)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Julian Thomas 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 1:23 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)


  Hi all,
  Just thought i'd share my first (and last) foray into the pure art world. I
  got to the gallery and felt that 'sinking' feeling. On one wall there was a
  carpet covered brick, a frame with two blank pieces of white paper, and on
  the other  an un-painted door frame (not dissing the art, just thinking 'how
  the fuck is my stuff going to fit here').
  Saw the guy who looked at my stuff (we don't do photography here, but i was
  thinking of dabbling).
  Q: How many of each do you make?
  A: In this series 10.
  Q: Oh no, that is no good, there is an 'international cannon' that for a
  piece to be a unique work, there can only be 4 copies. Why is this paper
  matte?
  A: Because I use a German paper that I like the look of and I like th
  ecolour I get with the ink.
  Q: Ink?
  A: (description of piezo)
  Q: Does it go blue?
  A: No
  Q: Does anyone else use this system and sell work through art galleries?
  A: In US and UK yes, Spain, I don't know.
  Q: This is all small, we'd need prints 3m by 4m, could you do that... Could
  you do photographs that look more like Barcelona?
  A !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Fuck me
  Julian

  -----------------------------------
  Julian Thomas
  Bruc 168-6-1
  08037 Barcelona

  Gallery at http://www.mwords.co.uk/galleryGuests.htm#
  and
  http://www.borderless-photos.de/jthomas/jthomas-01.html

  tfno 679676321




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)

2001-10-06 by Julian Thomas

The size thing I argued about, saying that a negative can only be taken so
big before it looses detail etc, this 'canon/cannon' of only 4 in a
series..!!! Has anyone else heard about it? Well, what do you say. This guy
was genuinely curious about photography, he knew nothing, and he tried to
shift his 'art' stuff onto my photography. But if he sells and displays a
carpet covered brick but wants me to take postcard shots of Barcelona! I've
had a strong gin and my language is moderating but really.

Thanks for the jennifer!

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jennifer Drucker" <jdrucker@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)


> Julian, don't give up!!!!  I have to say that I was laughing while reading
this.  The gallery owner here is a complete 'snob'.  Much to into himself
and his assumed 'image' than anything else.  They aren't all like that.
Really.  It took me a long time (I am not quite over it) to get over the
'art world' attitude.  You should have the exact attitude you had leaving
that interview, but it shouldn't deter you from trying again.
>
> When someone questions my technique, I tend to get into a heated battle
about it.  "Do you want to talk about the image, about the philosophy behind
it... fine, but I will not talk about technique before talking about the
image".  The technique is only as important as it relates to the aesthetic
of the image.  The technique should ALWAYS take a back seat unless it is
used, and I mean outright used (Rauchenberg using human hair), to evoke a
feeling, to lend itself to the aesthetic.
>
> You should feel very proud that a gallery owner (snob or not) were
effected by the aesthetic of your images.  It is very rare that a gallery
comes to you.... very rare.  Every experience, positive or negative will
help you as an artist... this particular experience will have you laughing a
year from now... trust me :)
>
> - Jennifer :)
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Julian Thomas
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 1:23 PM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)
>
>
>   Hi all,
>   Just thought i'd share my first (and last) foray into the pure art
world. I
>   got to the gallery and felt that 'sinking' feeling. On one wall there
was a
>   carpet covered brick, a frame with two blank pieces of white paper, and
on
>   the other  an un-painted door frame (not dissing the art, just thinking
'how
>   the fuck is my stuff going to fit here').
>   Saw the guy who looked at my stuff (we don't do photography here, but i
was
>   thinking of dabbling).
>   Q: How many of each do you make?
>   A: In this series 10.
>   Q: Oh no, that is no good, there is an 'international cannon' that for a
>   piece to be a unique work, there can only be 4 copies. Why is this paper
>   matte?
>   A: Because I use a German paper that I like the look of and I like th
>   ecolour I get with the ink.
>   Q: Ink?
>   A: (description of piezo)
>   Q: Does it go blue?
>   A: No
>   Q: Does anyone else use this system and sell work through art galleries?
>   A: In US and UK yes, Spain, I don't know.
>   Q: This is all small, we'd need prints 3m by 4m, could you do that...
Could
>   you do photographs that look more like Barcelona?
>   A !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>   Fuck me
>   Julian
>
>   -----------------------------------
>   Julian Thomas
>   Bruc 168-6-1
>   08037 Barcelona
>
>   Gallery at http://www.mwords.co.uk/galleryGuests.htm#
>   and
>   http://www.borderless-photos.de/jthomas/jthomas-01.html
>
>   tfno 679676321
>
>
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>
>
>
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
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Re: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)

2001-10-06 by Julian Thomas

Susana was in the room translating for me - she took one look at my face
afterwards and laughed! He didn't like my prices either - I asked for a
retail of 750USD for a limited edition of 10 with the gallery taking 50% - a
bit steep I know but i thought I'd try. He said if I could print them 3m
plus he'd want to sell for 60,000ptas (360USD) my cut being 180usd and I'd
have to cover printing and framing!

Julian

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Spragens" <t.spragens@...>
To: <digitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)


> Ahh Julian,
>
> much sympathy, but you've given me the best laugh of the week as well!
>
> Tim
>
> > Hi all,
> > Just thought i'd share my first (and last) foray into the pure art
> > world.--
> Tim Spragens
> http://www.borderless-photos.com
> &
> http://www.borderless-photos.de
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)

2001-10-06 by Johnny Deadman

on 10/6/01 2:25 PM, Julian Thomas at julianthomas@... wrote:

> Susana was in the room translating for me - she took one look at my face
> afterwards and laughed! He didn't like my prices either - I asked for a
> retail of 750USD for a limited edition of 10 with the gallery taking 50% - a
> bit steep I know but i thought I'd try. He said if I could print them 3m
> plus he'd want to sell for 60,000ptas (360USD) my cut being 180usd and I'd
> have to cover printing and framing!

the thing to do is print them really big, do one of each, and charge $10,000

actually the big print thing is very common in hi-end downtown art galleries

their customers have big walls and want big signature pieces

not like photo collectors who want an 11x14

I also hate the 'white box' art world

-- 
John Brownlow

http://www.pinkheadedbug.com

Re: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)

2001-10-06 by Julian Thomas

----- Original Message ----- >
> I also hate the 'white box' art world
>
I don't want to sound conservative, but how the hell can you overlap two
pieces of white paper and sell it? it has been done so often before - the
show was called 'the cemetery of helsinki'

Julian

Re: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)

2001-10-06 by Tyler Boley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@t...> wrote:
snip...
I've
> had a strong gin and my language is moderating but really.

Finish off the bottle and move on. The guy isn't worth worrying about, you'll run into more "varieties".
Stay the course with what you want to do with your work, these people only have a feel for what their clientele may fork out 
cash for, rarely much about art, or depending on their market, the value of art.
Keep your prices up there too.
The concessions one might want will be different from what another wants, you can't comply with them all so the rules 
might as well be yours.
Tyler

Re: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)

2001-10-06 by Tim Spragens

Ahh Julian,

much sympathy, but you've given me the best laugh of the week as well!

Tim

> Hi all,
> Just thought i'd share my first (and last) foray into the pure art
> world.--
Tim Spragens
http://www.borderless-photos.com
&
http://www.borderless-photos.de

Re: gallery results (RANT)

2001-10-06 by Mark Tucker

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Julian Thomas" 
<julianthomas@t...> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Just thought i'd share my first (and last) foray into the pure art 
world.

Deeerest Joooolian,

My boy... come and sit wiss me...... Let me thiiiink you sooo much 
for  jolly moment; I make peepee in britches while I read your 
looooovely story..... I have donned by black beret, and my black 
turtleneck, and my pencil-thin moooooostache in order to 
properly be in the frame of mind to feeeeeeeeel your pain...... 
<pursed lips>Do you not KNooooOOOOOW zee rules of zee 
game????? Zere cannot be more zan FOUR; are you silly, 
no?</pursed lips>

Az zee other nice man said to me in earlier post, "Forge AHEAD! 
Stand Tall! Hold zee head high!"

You have just now entered The Altered Conciousness. The 
Normal Rules do not apply here.

You have make my day. I hug you BEEG!

PS. I smell new project! You and me enter galleries with heeden 
camera, showing PEEZOGRAFS and make sound record of 
actual conversations with zee gallery owners! Wee make BEEG 
money! Same seeely man would sell those sound records, (but 
only if no more than four-MILLION kopies!)

Re: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)

2001-10-06 by Julian Thomas

Thanks Tyler. I think that there is a real problem in Spain for photography
though. Maybe I need to live and work here where it is cheap, and sell in
the UK/US!

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)


> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Julian Thomas"
<julianthomas@t...> wrote:
> snip...
> I've
> > had a strong gin and my language is moderating but really.
>
> Finish off the bottle and move on. The guy isn't worth worrying about,
you'll run into more "varieties".
> Stay the course with what you want to do with your work, these people only
have a feel for what their clientele may fork out
> cash for, rarely much about art, or depending on their market, the value
of art.
> Keep your prices up there too.
> The concessions one might want will be different from what another wants,
you can't comply with them all so the rules
> might as well be yours.
> Tyler
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

RE: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)

2001-10-06 by Nij

Hi Julian,

Well done for getting through that! But I can't help but think you missed an
opportunity  - I'm not sure where you found your found objects... but most
seem to have no particular style of writing on it - perhaps the series
should have been called 'Found Objects - Barcelona'?! ;)

Now... get your computer, wrap it in barbed wire... and take it back to him
"It's an installation dahhhling - 'Gallery's digital vision'

Sounds like one of those great 'learning experiences'!

Nij




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julian Thomas [mailto:julianthomas@...]
<snip>
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Q: This is all small, we'd need prints 3m by 4m, could you do
> that... Could
> you do photographs that look more like Barcelona?
> A !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)

2001-10-06 by SKID Photography

Julian,
Sorry to hear that you are so oddly treated, but....you didn't really enter the 'Art' world, you entered the
*commercial* art world.  Many confuse the two.   But they are very separate entities.

I have said it before, but it bars repeating: Van Gough was a failure, if you go by what he sold in his
lifetime (commerce) but was a great artist, recognized after his death (art).  Do not confuse art and
commerce.

Keep doing what you do because you love it...And don't let the assholes get you down.  :- )

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC

Julian Thomas wrote:

> Hi all,
> Just thought i'd share my first (and last) foray into the pure art world. I
> got to the gallery and felt that 'sinking' feeling. On one wall there was a
> carpet covered brick, a frame with two blank pieces of white paper, and on
> the other  an un-painted door frame (not dissing the art, just thinking 'how
> the fuck is my stuff going to fit here').
> Saw the guy who looked at my stuff (we don't do photography here, but i was
> thinking of dabbling).
> Q: How many of each do you make?
> A: In this series 10.
> Q: Oh no, that is no good, there is an 'international cannon' that for a
> piece to be a unique work, there can only be 4 copies. Why is this paper
> matte?
> A: Because I use a German paper that I like the look of and I like th
> ecolour I get with the ink.
> Q: Ink?
> A: (description of piezo)
> Q: Does it go blue?
> A: No
> Q: Does anyone else use this system and sell work through art galleries?
> A: In US and UK yes, Spain, I don't know.
> Q: This is all small, we'd need prints 3m by 4m, could you do that... Could
> you do photographs that look more like Barcelona?
> A !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Fuck me
> Julian


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] gallery results (RANT)

2001-10-06 by SKID Photography

Julian,
As I said before...It's all about commerce...Stick to your guns.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC

Julian Thomas wrote:

> Susana was in the room translating for me - she took one look at my face
> afterwards and laughed! He didn't like my prices either - I asked for a
> retail of 750USD for a limited edition of 10 with the gallery taking 50% - a
> bit steep I know but i thought I'd try. He said if I could print them 3m
> plus he'd want to sell for 60,000ptas (360USD) my cut being 180usd and I'd
> have to cover printing and framing!
>
> Julian
>
> Julian


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: gallery results (RANT)

2001-10-07 by ncm

Julian,

There must be a European conspiracy. When I talked to an art gallery 
owner here in Paris some time ago (mainly for advice) she quoted about 
2500FF as a suggested starting out price for my photo work - which comes 
to just about your $360. It must be said to her credit that she didn't 
suggest I print wall sized images (g)... 
And a lot of galleries make you pay for printing/framing and food/wine 
for the vernissage. Seems to be a local norm unless you are already 
world-famous. I think the American art market is used to higher and 
headier levels of pricing than us poor folk in Urup.

Cheers,

Nina

and Julian, thanks for that hilarious account of your first encounter 
with the fine arts world (g)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>I asked for a
>> retail of 750USD for a limited edition of 10 with the gallery taking 50% - a
>> bit steep I know but i thought I'd try. He said if I could print them 3m
>> plus he'd want to sell for 60,000ptas (360USD) my cut being 180usd and I'd
>> have to cover printing and framing!

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