Digital BW, The Print

Well, it's been a few days since my initial questions, and I've been 
letting all the opinions and information digest a bit.  I think I'm a 
lot closer to a decision thanks to all the good advice combined with 
my continuing to do my homework.  I'm still a little bit up in the 
air over a printer, though.  I've been thinking of starting off with 
a 13" printer and then working my way up to wide-format after getting 
in a good amount of practice working on a modest scale.

Nonetheless, a part of me is tempted to go for a larger format from 
the start, though I realize that my choice of printer might affect my 
choice of inket.  What I mean is that the more I spend on a printer 
the more I would probably not want it to be a dedicated B&W printer 
since it would get too expensive to also buy a separate WF printer 
for color work.  So, for example, if I spent $3000 on a 7600, I would 
probably want it to do color and B&W.

I've toyed with the thought of looking into a used 7500 and using it 
as a deicated B&W printer, perhaps with a CIS.  This seems like it 
would be a fairly cost-effective way of doing prints as large as 
24x30, but I'll admit I'm a little more leery of getting a used 7500 
than a new 1280, and I'm reluctant to consider spending $3000 for the 
7600, particularly, as I said, since it might end up being a 
decicated B&W printer.

So, any opinions regarding this option?  I'm not sure if it's how I 
would want to go, but it doesn't seem like too terribly expensive an 
option, and it would avoid my having to upgrade in the possibly near 
future.  Of course, it means more of an initial investment before I 
even try my hand at digital printing.  Investing a smaller sum of 
money on something totally new seems a little safer, though it may 
prove just very temporary.

Also, though I'm new to all this, I realize that the 7600 improved on 
the 7500 by a fair amount in some poeple's estimation.  I was 
wondering if there were any issues with the 7500 I should be aware of 
before I consider this option?  I've read some comments about banding 
issues for example.  Is this a concern?  Any other concerns I should 
be aware of?  Is buying a used printer perhaps a relatively risky 
thing?

Who knows, maybe I'll just grab a 1280 and get my feet wet for a 
relatively small inverstment and take it from there.  I think it'll 
be easier to commit to larger purchases once I've actually done some 
work and been happy with the results.  Nonetheless, I just wanted to 
consider all my options.  So, input, as always, is appreciated.

Mike

Mike,

>...if I spent $3000 on a 7600, I would
>probably want it to do color and B&W.

If I did both color and B&W display prints larger than 13" and could justify
the cost, the 7600 with a good RIP would be very high on the list.  But,
since I do only B&W display prints and cost is an issue, it just doesn't
make sense for me.

>I've toyed with the thought of looking into a used 7500 and using it
>as a deicated B&W printer ...

That is exactly what I did.  My theory was that when the 7600 came out, most
7500 color printers would dump them.  So, I grabbed one.  It's been a
terrific printer for the Ultra Tone inks.  (The large carts make a CIS
irrelevant.)

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

Have you (or anyone else here) had any issues with banding on the 
7500 as described by Mike (banding?

 Since the resolution is lower than the 1280, is it noticeably any 
worse? 

To buy a used 7500 sounds like an intresting option, how much should 
I expect to pay for a used one?

How often do you print to avoid clogging on these printers (7500 or 
1280) - I live in a very dry area.

Thanks, Alfred



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Mike,
> 
> >...if I spent $3000 on a 7600, I would
> >probably want it to do color and B&W.
> 
> If I did both color and B&W display prints larger than 13" and 
could justify
> the cost, the 7600 with a good RIP would be very high on the list.  
But,
> since I do only B&W display prints and cost is an issue, it just 
doesn't
> make sense for me.
> 
> >I've toyed with the thought of looking into a used 7500 and using 
it
> >as a deicated B&W printer ...
> 
> That is exactly what I did.  My theory was that when the 7600 came 
out, most
> 7500 color printers would dump them.  So, I grabbed one.  It's been 
a
> terrific printer for the Ultra Tone inks.  (The large carts make a 
CIS

> irrelevant.)
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Hi ALfred,

Since I'm so new at this, I always preface my advice with that 
discalimer, but, that said, I've read a lot of posts in the Epson 
Wide Format group that suggests that clogging is primarily a humidity 
issue.  And, of course, this may be a particular problem with you 
since you live in a dry area.

Seems the simplest and best solution is to use a humidifier.  
Personally, I already have one, so that works out great.  They're 
really very cheap, and so is the little device used to monitor 
humidity.  I forget what it's called (hygrometer?).

Off hand, I forget the optimal humidity level and would have to go 
look it up again, though I suspect 50% would do well.  I live in New 
England, hardly more than a minute away from the ocean, so summers 
are extremely humid here, winters very dry.  I plan on keeping a 
humidifier on in my work space all the dry months when I get my new 
printer.  

Better safe than sorry, as they say.  Plus I'm simply more 
comfortable with a humidifier on in the winter anyway.  I have quite 
dry skin, and a himidifier generally means having itch free winters, 
which is why I have the humidifier to begin with.

Yes, I know, probably more than you needed to know. :)

Mike



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "aevoegels" 
<aevoegels@y...> wrote:
> 
> Paul,
> 
> Have you (or anyone else here) had any issues with banding on the 
> 7500 as described by Mike (banding?
> 
>  Since the resolution is lower than the 1280, is it noticeably any 
> worse? 
> 
> To buy a used 7500 sounds like an intresting option, how much 
should 
> I expect to pay for a used one?
> 
> How often do you print to avoid clogging on these printers (7500 or 
> 1280) - I live in a very dry area.
> 
> Thanks, Alfred
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Mike,
> > 
> > >...if I spent $3000 on a 7600, I would
> > >probably want it to do color and B&W.
> > 
> > If I did both color and B&W display prints larger than 13" and 
> could justify
> > the cost, the 7600 with a good RIP would be very high on the 
list.  
> But,
> > since I do only B&W display prints and cost is an issue, it just 
> doesn't
> > make sense for me.
> > 
> > >I've toyed with the thought of looking into a used 7500 and 
using 
> it
> > >as a deicated B&W printer ...
> > 
> > That is exactly what I did.  My theory was that when the 7600 
came 
> out, most
> > 7500 color printers would dump them.  So, I grabbed one.  It's 
been 
> a
> > terrific printer for the Ultra Tone inks.  (The large carts make 
a 

> CIS
> > irrelevant.)
> > 
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul,

Since you didn't mention it, can I assume banding hasn't been an 
issue for you?  Is this merely a matter of periodically checking and 
maintaining head alignment?

Mike


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Mike,
> 
> >...if I spent $3000 on a 7600, I would
> >probably want it to do color and B&W.
> 
> If I did both color and B&W display prints larger than 13" and 
could justify
> the cost, the 7600 with a good RIP would be very high on the list.  
But,
> since I do only B&W display prints and cost is an issue, it just 
doesn't
> make sense for me.
> 
> >I've toyed with the thought of looking into a used 7500 and using 
it
> >as a deicated B&W printer ...
> 
> That is exactly what I did.  My theory was that when the 7600 came 
out, most
> 7500 color printers would dump them.  So, I grabbed one.  It's been 
a
> terrific printer for the Ultra Tone inks.  (The large carts make a 
CIS

> irrelevant.)
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> 
> If I did both color and B&W display prints larger than 13" and 
could justify
> the cost, the 7600 with a good RIP would be very high on the list.  
But,
> since I do only B&W display prints and cost is an issue, it just 
doesn't
> make sense for me.


Well, cost is definitely an issue with me at the moment.  
Unfortunately, the cost of adding a good RIP to a 7600 would probably 
be equal or higher than buying a used 7500 in addition to the 7600 
(without the RIP).  Of course, there's the question of how many WF 
printers I could actually find the space for, lol.

Anyway, just thinking out loud.

Mike

>Have you (or anyone else here) had any issues with banding on the
>7500 as described by Mike (banding?

I have had no banding with my 7500, at least with good curves and the UT
inkset.  However, I have noticed that with some of the inksets I've played
with on the 7500 and with some curves, it can band easier than the newer
printers.

In following the forums over the last several years, it looks like if you
get a "good" one, you'll not be plagued with banding.  However, if you get
one that bands it seems to be nearly impossible to cure.  So look at some
sample prints before buying.

> Since the resolution is lower than the 1280, is it noticeably any
>worse?

The 7000 and 7500 are relatively old technology.  The dot size, for example,
is closer to the 3000 than to the variable-dot, modern printers, including
the 1280.  However, for quads, the light ink in the highlights takes care of
the dot size issue.  The final quality with the UT inks is excellent.

>To buy a used 7500 sounds like an intresting option, how much should
>I expect to pay for a used one?

Check EBay.  I paid $1800 with stand and under warranty (expensive).  I've
seen them go for $1000, but since I didn't face any transportation expense,
the machine was like new, had a warranty, and I knew and trusted the seller,
I thought the price was very fair.

>How often do you print to avoid clogging on these printers (7500 or
>1280) - I live in a very dry area.

I never worry about clogging.  I can go for months and get any of my
printers going with just several cleaning cycles.  However, I don't live in
a very dry area.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
____________________________________


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> >...if I spent $3000 on a 7600, I would
> >probably want it to do color and B&W.
>
> If I did both color and B&W display prints larger than 13" and
could justify
> the cost, the 7600 with a good RIP would be very high on the list.
But,
> since I do only B&W display prints and cost is an issue, it just
doesn't
> make sense for me.
>
> >I've toyed with the thought of looking into a used 7500 and using
it
> >as a deicated B&W printer ...
>
> That is exactly what I did.  My theory was that when the 7600 came
out, most
> 7500 color printers would dump them.  So, I grabbed one.  It's been
a
> terrific printer for the Ultra Tone inks.  (The large carts make a
CIS
> irrelevant.)
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com



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--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
 
> I have had no banding with my 7500, at least with good curves and 
the UT
> inkset.  However, I have noticed that with some of the inksets I've 
played
> with on the 7500 and with some curves, it can band easier than the 
newer
> printers.
> 
> In following the forums over the last several years, it looks like 
if you
> get a "good" one, you'll not be plagued with banding.  However, if 
you get
> one that bands it seems to be nearly impossible to cure.  So look 
at some
> sample prints before buying.
erms/

Thank you.  This answers my question as well, plus it's a good heads-
up in regard to buying a used 7500, which causes me some concern.  If 
I go that route, I'll make sure to check out a few prints first, 
particularly since banding problems would be an excellent reason for 
someone to sell a printer.

Mike