Digital BW, The Print

I'm not getting good nozzle checks on my 2200 with the 
UltraTone carts on day three of my switch.

I got excellent nozzle checks yesterday, but this morning my 
first check showed one pattern skipping, six good. After 3 
cleanings/nozzle checks (one of them a double cleaning) I now 
have three screwed up patterns. I seem to be making it worse.  

I've never had to deal with this before. Any advice? 

-david

I had the same problem for a few days and then the clogs eventually  
stopped.  I don't really know what causes this but suspect that the  
carts don't seal as well as the Epson ones and may leak air into the  
system.  I've only used one set of UT carts and have now switched back  
to the Epson UC inks for awhile.

Carl

On Saturday, November 15, 2003, at 12:20  PM, David Wroblewski wrote:

> I'm not getting good nozzle checks on my 2200 with the
> UltraTone carts on day three of my switch.
>
> I got excellent nozzle checks yesterday, but this morning my
> first check showed one pattern skipping, six good. After 3
> cleanings/nozzle checks (one of them a double cleaning) I now
> have three screwed up patterns. I seem to be making it worse.
>
> I've never had to deal with this before. Any advice?
>
> -david
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Thanks, Carl. How did you clear the clogs you had? Just
garden variety cleanings?

Or are you saying you let it sit for a few days and they
went away without intervention?

david

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield 
<scho@m...> wrote:
> I had the same problem for a few days and then the clogs 
eventually  
> stopped.  I don't really know what causes this but suspect that 
the  
> carts don't seal as well as the Epson ones and may leak air into 
the  
> system.  I've only used one set of UT carts and have now switched 
back  
> to the Epson UC inks for awhile.
> 
> Carl
> On Saturday, November 15, 2003, at 12:20  PM, David Wroblewski 
wrote:

> 
> > I'm not getting good nozzle checks on my 2200 with the
> > UltraTone carts on day three of my switch.
> >
> > I got excellent nozzle checks yesterday, but this morning my
> > first check showed one pattern skipping, six good. After 3
> > cleanings/nozzle checks (one of them a double cleaning) I now
> > have three screwed up patterns. I seem to be making it worse.
> >
> > I've never had to deal with this before. Any advice?
> >
> > -david
> >

I didn't do anything other than the routine 2-3 cleaning cycles.  I was  
also not printing every day, so there were intermittent rest periods.

Carl

On Saturday, November 15, 2003, at 01:15  PM, David Wroblewski wrote:

> Thanks, Carl. How did you clear the clogs you had? Just
> garden variety cleanings?
>
> Or are you saying you let it sit for a few days and they
> went away without intervention?
>
> david
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield
> <scho@m...> wrote:
>> I had the same problem for a few days and then the clogs
> eventually
>> stopped.  I don't really know what causes this but suspect that
> the
>> carts don't seal as well as the Epson ones and may leak air into
> the
>> system.  I've only used one set of UT carts and have now switched
> back
>> to the Epson UC inks for awhile.
>>
>> Carl
>> On Saturday, November 15, 2003, at 12:20  PM, David Wroblewski
> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not getting good nozzle checks on my 2200 with the
>>> UltraTone carts on day three of my switch.
>>>
>>> I got excellent nozzle checks yesterday, but this morning my
>>> first check showed one pattern skipping, six good. After 3
>>> cleanings/nozzle checks (one of them a double cleaning) I now
>>> have three screwed up patterns. I seem to be making it worse.
>>>
>>> I've never had to deal with this before. Any advice?
>>>
>>> -david
>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  
> ---------------------~-->
> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
> Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &  
> Canada.
> http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/ucIolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls  
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to  
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject  
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the  
> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to  
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I'm having the same clogging problem.  I just installed my MIS UT inks on my 2200.  I 
was getting clogs in random nozzles.  I would print a pattern and two nozzles would 
be clogged.  I'd then immediatly print the pattern again without a cleaning and then a 
different two nozzles would be clogged.  Then I'd print again without cleaning and 
another two, etc, etc.  I've done many cleanings (already went through a quarter of 
every cartridge) and still have the problem.  At the moment I have it down to one 
nozzle (yellow position).


Jeff


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David Wroblewski" 
<dawroblewski@y...> wrote:

> I'm not getting good nozzle checks on my 2200 with the 
> UltraTone carts on day three of my switch.
> 
> I got excellent nozzle checks yesterday, but this morning my 
> first check showed one pattern skipping, six good. After 3 
> cleanings/nozzle checks (one of them a double cleaning) I now 
> have three screwed up patterns. I seem to be making it worse.  
> 
> I've never had to deal with this before. Any advice? 
> 
> -david

One bit of advice I've received is that the MIS ink may be
thinner than the UltraChome ink. It might be that the cleaning
cycle (a) squirts more ink out, since it was designed for
more viscous ink (b) actually introduces bubbles, which are the
probable cause of the "clog". Just speculation.

The Linux escputil program reported that my carts were 4% lower
after a single cleaning. I'm at 50% on all carts at this point.

I'm down to a couple of gaps in one head right now, and have
resigned myself to waiting until tomorrow morning, under the 
theory that whatever bubbles are in there need time to dissolve
back into the ink.

My gaps, unlike yours, seem relatively constant. Especially if you
just put the carts in, wait a few hours. It was 5-6 hours after
I first installed them before I got a clean nozzle check. (I also
did a "shakedown" on the carts as Epson recommends which could have
made matters worse.)

I'm assuming these are one-time changeover problems, not something
that occurs every time one puts a new cartridge in. That would be
unacceptable, and no one is reporting that.

david



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jsinger986" 
<jsphotos@t...> wrote:
> I'm having the same clogging problem.  I just installed my MIS UT 
inks on my 2200.  I 
> was getting clogs in random nozzles.  I would print a pattern and 
two nozzles would 
> be clogged.  I'd then immediatly print the pattern again without a 
cleaning and then a 
> different two nozzles would be clogged.  Then I'd print again 
without cleaning and 
> another two, etc, etc.  I've done many cleanings (already went 
through a quarter of 
> every cartridge) and still have the problem.  At the moment I have 
it down to one 
> nozzle (yellow position).
> 
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David 
Wroblewski" 

> <dawroblewski@y...> wrote:
> > I'm not getting good nozzle checks on my 2200 with the 
> > UltraTone carts on day three of my switch.
> > 
> > I got excellent nozzle checks yesterday, but this morning my 
> > first check showed one pattern skipping, six good. After 3 
> > cleanings/nozzle checks (one of them a double cleaning) I now 
> > have three screwed up patterns. I seem to be making it worse.  
> > 
> > I've never had to deal with this before. Any advice? 
> > 
> > -david

I'll give it a few hours or until tomorrow.

I did a "shakedown" as well... are we the only two? Hmm, we're the only two 
complaining! :-)

Jeff

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David Wroblewski" 
<dawroblewski@y...> wrote:

> One bit of advice I've received is that the MIS ink may be
> thinner than the UltraChome ink. It might be that the cleaning
> cycle (a) squirts more ink out, since it was designed for
> more viscous ink (b) actually introduces bubbles, which are the
> probable cause of the "clog". Just speculation.
> 
> The Linux escputil program reported that my carts were 4% lower
> after a single cleaning. I'm at 50% on all carts at this point.
> 
> I'm down to a couple of gaps in one head right now, and have
> resigned myself to waiting until tomorrow morning, under the 
> theory that whatever bubbles are in there need time to dissolve
> back into the ink.
> 
> My gaps, unlike yours, seem relatively constant. Especially if you
> just put the carts in, wait a few hours. It was 5-6 hours after
> I first installed them before I got a clean nozzle check. (I also
> did a "shakedown" on the carts as Epson recommends which could have
> made matters worse.)
> 
> I'm assuming these are one-time changeover problems, not something
> that occurs every time one puts a new cartridge in. That would be
> unacceptable, and no one is reporting that.
> 
> david
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jsinger986" 
> <jsphotos@t...> wrote:
> > I'm having the same clogging problem.  I just installed my MIS UT 
> inks on my 2200.  I 
> > was getting clogs in random nozzles.  I would print a pattern and 
> two nozzles would 
> > be clogged.  I'd then immediatly print the pattern again without a 
> cleaning and then a 
> > different two nozzles would be clogged.  Then I'd print again 
> without cleaning and 
> > another two, etc, etc.  I've done many cleanings (already went 
> through a quarter of 
> > every cartridge) and still have the problem.  At the moment I have 
> it down to one 
> > nozzle (yellow position).
> > 
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David 
> Wroblewski" 
> > <dawroblewski@y...> wrote:
> > > I'm not getting good nozzle checks on my 2200 with the 
> > > UltraTone carts on day three of my switch.
> > > 
> > > I got excellent nozzle checks yesterday, but this morning my 
> > > first check showed one pattern skipping, six good. After 3 
> > > cleanings/nozzle checks (one of them a double cleaning) I now 
> > > have three screwed up patterns. I seem to be making it worse.  
> > > 
> > > I've never had to deal with this before. Any advice? 
> > > 
> > > -david

i bought some ut carts too, but now i'm scared to put
them in. actually i plan on it anyway in a day or two,
so i file my clog/nonclog report midweek.
right on
john e

--- jsinger986 <jsphotos@...> wrote:
> I'll give it a few hours or until tomorrow.
> 
> I did a "shakedown" as well... are we the only two?
> Hmm, we're the only two 
> complaining! :-)
> 
> Jeff
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> "David Wroblewski" 
> <dawroblewski@y...> wrote:
> > One bit of advice I've received is that the MIS
> ink may be
> > thinner than the UltraChome ink. It might be that
> the cleaning
> > cycle (a) squirts more ink out, since it was
> designed for
> > more viscous ink (b) actually introduces bubbles,
> which are the
> > probable cause of the "clog". Just speculation.
> > 
> > The Linux escputil program reported that my carts
> were 4% lower
> > after a single cleaning. I'm at 50% on all carts
> at this point.
> > 
> > I'm down to a couple of gaps in one head right
> now, and have
> > resigned myself to waiting until tomorrow morning,
> under the 
> > theory that whatever bubbles are in there need
> time to dissolve
> > back into the ink.
> > 
> > My gaps, unlike yours, seem relatively constant.
> Especially if you
> > just put the carts in, wait a few hours. It was
> 5-6 hours after
> > I first installed them before I got a clean nozzle
> check. (I also
> > did a "shakedown" on the carts as Epson recommends
> which could have
> > made matters worse.)
> > 
> > I'm assuming these are one-time changeover
> problems, not something
> > that occurs every time one puts a new cartridge
> in. That would be
> > unacceptable, and no one is reporting that.
> > 
> > david
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> "jsinger986" 
> > <jsphotos@t...> wrote:
> > > I'm having the same clogging problem.  I just
> installed my MIS UT 
> > inks on my 2200.  I 
> > > was getting clogs in random nozzles.  I would
> print a pattern and 
> > two nozzles would 
> > > be clogged.  I'd then immediatly print the
> pattern again without a 
> > cleaning and then a 
> > > different two nozzles would be clogged.  Then
> I'd print again 
> > without cleaning and 
> > > another two, etc, etc.  I've done many cleanings
> (already went 
> > through a quarter of 
> > > every cartridge) and still have the problem.  At
> the moment I have 
> > it down to one 
> > > nozzle (yellow position).
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Jeff
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David
> 
> > Wroblewski" 
> > > <dawroblewski@y...> wrote:
> > > > I'm not getting good nozzle checks on my 2200
> with the 
> > > > UltraTone carts on day three of my switch.
> > > > 
> > > > I got excellent nozzle checks yesterday, but
> this morning my 
> > > > first check showed one pattern skipping, six
> good. After 3 
> > > > cleanings/nozzle checks (one of them a double
> cleaning) I now 
> > > > have three screwed up patterns. I seem to be
> making it worse.  
> > > > 
> > > > I've never had to deal with this before. Any
> advice? 
> > > > 
> > > > -david
> 
> 


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> I'll give it a few hours or until tomorrow.
> 
> I did a "shakedown" as well... are we the only two? Hmm, we're the only two
> complaining! :-)
> 
> Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Hmm, maybe that is a clue! It seems like the following nozzle-check
information might be true:

If the pattern is changing, the problem is bubbles in the ink in the
cartridges.
If the pattern repeats, the problem is clogged heads.

I guess you could have both problems at the same time...  :(

For the record, I did NOT shake my UT carts before installing then and have
had perfect nozzle checks since the second day of having them installed.

My sneaking suspicion is that bubbles are a much bigger problem than clogs.
Epson carts are in a much longer supply chain--the inks have a greater
chance to settle--hence the need for the shake. The 3rd party inks are in a
shorter chain and don't need it--or the ride in the back of the UPS/FED EX
truck is sufficient to counter any settling. If it is true that the
UT's are thinner than the Epson OEM inks, then the ride in the delivery
vehicle and then shaking the carts before installing may be foaming up the
ink unacceptably. 

That seems to be my experience--then again, most of the above is
conjecture...

Jon

Hi John E,

Maybe you can be a Guinea pig... :)

Here is my process:

Don't shake the carts before installation;
After install, run a head cleaning and nozzle check;
Let the 2200 sit 24 hours;
Run two head cleanings (or three) with no nozzle check between;
Run a nozzle check.

I also ran a test image through figuring that the repeated firing of the
heads would help get the ink flowing.

Hope that helps,

Jon

> i bought some ut carts too, but now i'm scared to put
> them in. actually i plan on it anyway in a day or two,
> so i file my clog/nonclog report midweek.
> right on
> john e
> 
> --- jsinger986 <jsphotos@...> wrote:
>> I'll give it a few hours or until tomorrow.
>> 
>> I did a "shakedown" as well... are we the only two?
>> Hmm, we're the only two
>> complaining! :-)
>> 
>> Jeff
>>

FWIW,

From my experiences with changing inks on an Epson 2000P
and Epson 3000, it sometimes takes weeks for a system
to settle down with new inks. Don't know why, but that is
what I have found. Just do a cleaning or two, wait a day,
try again.. maybe try a few prints. Sometimes, I've gotten
lousy nozzle tests but made an excellent print immediately
afterwards - go figure !

During the several weeks of installing the PiezoTone 
carts on the 3000, I needed two cleaning cycles before
every use to get good results..

Now both, even with 2 weeks+ (+++ on the 2000P) of unuse 
give perfect tests without cleaning cycles. 

Alex


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David 
Wroblewski" <dawroblewski@y...> wrote:

> I'm not getting good nozzle checks on my 2200 with the 
> UltraTone carts on day three of my switch.
> 

> 
> -david

hi jon

good idea i will do it your way and see what happens,
i will install them later tonight or tomorrow and
report the day after.

john e

-- Jon <vze249jf@...> wrote:
> Hi John E,
> 
> Maybe you can be a Guinea pig... :)
> 
> Here is my process:
> 
> Don't shake the carts before installation;
> After install, run a head cleaning and nozzle check;
> Let the 2200 sit 24 hours;
> Run two head cleanings (or three) with no nozzle
> check between;
> Run a nozzle check.
> 
> I also ran a test image through figuring that the
> repeated firing of the
> heads would help get the ink flowing.
> 
> Hope that helps,
> 
> Jon
>  
> > i bought some ut carts too, but now i'm scared to
> put
> > them in. actually i plan on it anyway in a day or
> two,
> > so i file my clog/nonclog report midweek.
> > right on
> > john e
> > 
> > --- jsinger986 <jsphotos@...> wrote:
> >> I'll give it a few hours or until tomorrow.
> >> 
> >> I did a "shakedown" as well... are we the only
> two?
> >> Hmm, we're the only two
> >> complaining! :-)
> >> 
> >> Jeff
> >> 
> 
> 


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Thought I would post an update on my status with the "clogs"
I have had on my 2200 with the MIS UltraTone cartidges. 

After waiting about a day, performing intermittent nozzle checks
but no cleaning cycles, I ended up with all good nozzle checks
except for the lightest black ink (in the yellow position.)
Thereafter I was always missing the same 4-5 segments on that
position. All the others were 100% good.

I printed a number of work prints anyway, to establish what blend
of neutral/cool I wanted for the image I was working on. The gaps 
didn't visibly affect image quality, but printing a real image 
or two didn't cause the gaps to close up either.

So I ran one cleaning cycle, and the whole lt black ink position
shut down--not a single line anywhere on the nozzle check. I 
just finished talking with MIS and we're going to try a new 
cart; apparently I have a defective one in that position.
When I put the original Epson UC yellow cart back in, I immediately
got a perfect nozzle check across the board.

So, midweek I should be back in action, but I'm at a standstill
until the replacements arrive. I'm not particularly worried about
these issues right now, especially after getting a clean check
with the Epson cart installed. Plus I'm impressed with MIS
customer service.

-david


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, john eckenrode 
<ejohn182002@y...> wrote:

> hi jon
> 
> good idea i will do it your way and see what happens,
> i will install them later tonight or tomorrow and
> report the day after.
> 
> john e
> 
> -- Jon <vze249jf@v...> wrote:
> > Hi John E,
> > 
> > Maybe you can be a Guinea pig... :)
> > 
> > Here is my process:
> > 
> > Don't shake the carts before installation;
> > After install, run a head cleaning and nozzle check;
> > Let the 2200 sit 24 hours;
> > Run two head cleanings (or three) with no nozzle
> > check between;
> > Run a nozzle check.
> > 
> > I also ran a test image through figuring that the
> > repeated firing of the
> > heads would help get the ink flowing.
> > 
> > Hope that helps,
> > 
> > Jon
> >  
> > > i bought some ut carts too, but now i'm scared to
> > put
> > > them in. actually i plan on it anyway in a day or
> > two,
> > > so i file my clog/nonclog report midweek.
> > > right on
> > > john e
> > > 
> > > --- jsinger986 <jsphotos@t...> wrote:
> > >> I'll give it a few hours or until tomorrow.
> > >> 
> > >> I did a "shakedown" as well... are we the only
> > two?
> > >> Hmm, we're the only two
> > >> complaining! :-)
> > >> 
> > >> Jeff
> > >> 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
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