Keith wrote:
> Some people just refuse to admit being wrong..
>
> Here's the quote from that very link I provided..
>
> "My sources had recently told me that Bowhaus has AT LEAST temporarily
> shelved active development of a Windoze version of IJC/OPM. (reportedly
> at least UNTIL they recoup some of the $ they have invested in initial
> product development - whatever that means). [I've been too busy with
> movie and election work to post about this until now.]"
>
> Sounds like more than conjecture to me..
I can't control what sounds like conjecture to you. Until Bowhaus makes an
official statement--or your 'sources' identify themselves and make a public
statement--it remains conjecture.
>
> But I'll go a bit further. I consciously held back from saying more in
> the hopes that my sources were wrong.. In some ways, I would actually
> have preferred to be wrong about this.
>
Of course! More sales will eventually bring the price down and more
options--everyone here wants that.
>> Unless they had a contract regarding those decisions, that is their own
>> problem.
>>
>>
> Agreed.. However, the promise is there in the link they provided.. They
> broke a promise, that's unenforceable as a legal matter, however, it
> speaks volumes about whether to trust future pronouncements from any
> source that does so.
>
Oh c'mon! HELLO? Gimme a break! If Microsoft products sold on reliability of
release dates, we would ALL be using unix.
>> People make mistakes all the time.
>>
> Certainly, and I admit mine when I make them, funny how Bowhaus hasn't
> cared to update the public on where that Windoze version is...
>
Did you ask them??? I certainly would have much preferred you posting a note
saying that YOU specifically asked them and their reply was...
Instead of blasting the list with a "MY SOURCES SAY"...
I mean, maybe you are a titan in the inkjet world (I've never heard of
you...which means little) and maybe your "SOURCES" can top the CIA in inkjet
surveillance... I guess what it comes down to is your method of
communicating--instead of what you are communicating. It tires me.
> But, when you make mistakes publicly, the public duly notes it..
>
I've heard all of two people complain--you are one.
>> I'm impressed.
>>
>>
> If so, you might have listened 6 weeks ago..
>
There is no more evidence today than then. Odds are YOU ARE RIGHT--that
doesn't change the fact that it isn't substantiated.
>> Don't forget OSX.
>
> Fine, add in OSX, as I said, I admit MY errors when they are pointed out..
I'll admit my errors--only when I've made an error, however.
> It's still a minor total compared to the WinTel world..
>
That is a misleading statement (see below). In three years in NYC photo
studios I've never seen a PC being used (except for the LF Piezo rip). I'd
say the percentage of Mac's being used for printing is much higher than
percentage of macs in the general population. I may be mistaken. Just my own
experience working in the photo biz.
>> The UT inkset works great.
>>
> and UT2 is where development is going.. I wonder if that's simply
> coincidence?
>
Ask your "SOURCES".
> and when a new inkset comes out that is better than the UT V2, what
> then? It's inevitable, the technology is progressing quite rapidly..
>
I make a profile...
If Bowhaus dropped the ball, someone will fill the void... It ain't the end
of the world.
>> If people want to make it work bad enough, they will. Network a cheap
>> Powerbook and stick it on a shelf. Last shop I worked in had the retouching
>> Mac stations networked to a dirt cheap PC running the Cone rip for the 9000.
>>
>>
> yada. yada yada.. The vast majority of people don't buy a whole
> platform to run one app. Especially such a niche app. Talk till you
> are blue in the face and that won't change a whit.. That point has been
> made by others on here as well.. (Along with the almost idiotic attempt
> to paint it as Windows users "jealous of the fact that an app was Mac
> Only for a change")
Aww, touch a nerve? As a Mac user I've had to do exactly this kind of thing
for the last twelve years. GET OVER IT.
The fact is, the more users who can use it, and
> Windows would have opened a vastly larger potential market, the more
> inksets and printers supported we might have seen... I'm interested in
> more options, not less.. In net, is the failure of that promise good or bad?
>
Do you realize what it take to write software? The last company I worked for
wrote software for both Mac/PC--at the time you had one version for the Mac,
and... 95/98/2000/ME/XP for the PC.
If Bowhaus can't bring that software to fruition without putting themselves
in financial straits--then they shouldn't!
If your goal was to communicate and start a dialog (instead of creating
rancor) you might think that through.
Why did they shelve/postpone it? To anger the Krebsian inkjet empire? Or,
because they looked at the market and their bank account and decided that
the time wasn't right? Do you know the answer to that question?? Maybe they
are making a decent profit selling only the Mac version? Maybe they make
MUCH more money in their main line of business and IJC was just testing the
water...
> A "few shops" aren't what pays for the Cone RIP to be produced, nor for
> the investment of time money or energy necessary to support a particular
> piece of software with compatible hardware...
>
Cone is always hot to have shops using his products in a professional
environment--that gets visibility and visibility _sells ink_. Ask him.
>> There is no evidence that anything has changed. If it has, and contracts
>> have been written up, then I'm SURE someone's lawyers will be jumping down
>> someone else's throat.
>>
>>
> I have no information on contracts and if I did I wouldn't broach it
> publicly anyway.. But there sure is evidence that things have changed
> since that press release came out.. There is NO news of any Windoze
> version in the foreseeable offing.. Unless you are telling time by a
> Wilhelm archival scale, I'd say no offering in 9 months when it was
> promised "SOON" is significant news..
Hmmm, I haven't heard you say anything about the Cone ICC set up announced
last year at PMA--or did I just not notice it?
Just as it is significant when
> MicroSoft pushes back a delivery date for XP or Win2K by a quarter or
> more.. In this case, there's nothing but "soon" still available. I'm
> actually wondering how long it'll be until that Press Release is altered
> or disappears from the Bowhaus site.. (of course, just as I did with
> EPSON and their pronouncements, until they admitted the Orange shift was
> real, I've saved a copy locally for future reference)
>
> More evidence of change? MIS announced a soon to come software this way:
> " Soon we will have a new software package for making B&W Prints. It
> will initially be for Mac computers only."
> http://www.inksupply.com/index1.cfm?source=html/new_prod.html
>
>
> and support for Bowhaus/QTR this way:
> "These inks do not use the Roark workflows, only Bowhaus or Quadtone
> Rip. It is the direction for the future. "
> http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/whatsnew.html
>
> The very fact that we are getting the UT v2 inkset as a Roark workflow
> product says a lot to me..
>
Again: why don't you ask them. Would save on typing.
> Additionally, as a legal matter, a promise is never a contract, as it
> represents only one-half of a necessary exchange of value. So, no-one's
> accusing anyone of breach of contract.. Just a heretofore unfulfilled
> promise.
>
> More importantly think about this.. Do you really think that vendors who
> held back only to be burnt/let down will go down that road with Bowhaus
> again? Two adages come to mind:
>
> "Once bitten, twice shy"
>
> "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."
Do you not think Bowhaus understands that? They potentially have a lot to
lose also...
>
>> Um, great, juvenalia.
>
> Hey, it's somewhat satisfying, even if juvenile, to be able to say
> "nyah, nyah, nyah, told ya so," once in awhile - especially given the
> grief I was given for having the temerity to broach the issue last month.
>
Ah! Such noble motives!
>> Is that content in the public domain, or is it covered
>> by copyright?
>>
>>
> It's less than 30 seconds.. It's been part of the EPSON orange-shift
> site for well over 3 years. Beyond which it is used both here and on the
> site as editorial commentary (criticism, in fact), placing it squarely
> within the doctrine of "fair use." Even so, not a single copyright
> holder has shown up to date.. If they indicate it somehow violates their
> copyright I'll remove it.. I didn't code it, I didn't record it.. But if
> a copyright holder presents themselves with a formal request I'll remove
> it..
>
That is what I thought.
>
>> Is it really necessary to include all of this...? Makes the digest really
>> long.
>>
>>
> It's shorter than the disclaimers Companies attach to their postings, or
> the disclaimer that all posts to this forum receive automatically. Fact
> is, I caretake those two lists, they are great communities and I am
> grateful to them for what they mean to the inkjet business.
>
> Look, I have NOTHING against Bowhaus, its staff or owners,
Neither do I. I'll use their product until something better comes along--I
feel the same way about my Mac, my Linhof, my Pista road bike. It is a
purely commercial relationship.
all I care
> about is news of what's going on in the business.. If that news is
> positive, fine, if it's negative, so be it... I don't make the news I
> only report it..
>
I don't think you would make it as a journalist. I didn't see you
"reporting" information as much as ranting and venting as if a cabal of
suits sitting around a table at Bowhaus was plotting to shelve the PC
version JUST TO PISS YOU OFF.
> I was hoping for a Windows version because I saw great potential in it
> for all users.. More users would have meant more supporting products..
> and so on.. If I was wrong to hope for that, so be it..
I hope Bowhaus continues to do what keeps them financially viable. When that
includes PC software, so be it.
> Keith Krebs
>
> "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer
> User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo
> Publications), at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
> and the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User Community at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
> "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together
> guys"
You may choose to respond to this publicly (or privately), but I'm going to
start winding it down, for two reasons: one, I have ten pins and an external
fixator in my wrist and pecking with one hand sucks (took me over an hour to
write this). And two, it is veering too far off topic and I can hear
Martin's teeth grinding.
Jon