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Multihead BO (theoretical more or less)

Multihead BO (theoretical more or less)

2003-12-29 by Ernst Dinkla

I'm interested in BO printing for esthetical reasons (Tri-X grain
Rodinal 1/25> document paper prints etc in the past) but do not
have the right printers in house. I've no experience other than
having seen some prints with Epson dye with a 1280 and I wasn't
impressed, the greyscale is alright but the consistency isn't,
banding being the main problem. My 9000's here (Generations black
or Ultratone black) are better in consistency + linearity
(Wasatch SoftRip) but the droplets are too big.

I've written it before that I think there's a way to improve BO
printing by using more nozzles than the nozzles of the black head
only. If the quantity of black ink per head is reduced by the
number of heads used there must be a gain in consistency and
quality. A driver that allows linearisation per head on top of
that should improve the consistency even more. There still is a
need for a printer with small droplets and that's where I miss
some information.

A 4 colour printer should be adequate. The new R800 (7  heads,
not yet available) has the finest droplet size so far but which
existing 4 colour printer comes next ? How is the droplet size
distribution, 2>3 sizes per resolution setting? How many nozzles
per colour ? What would be the best candidate ? A3/A4 size.

Suppose one can use three heads at 1/3 of their normal ink
quantity and get the smallest droplet size (of 3 sizes) for the
three heads when printing 100% black. If there's one that has 4
droplet sizes take 4 heads. Next choice is the amount of nozzles
per colour, the more the better.

Would that give an improvement over  a single head BO print with
the same printer ?
There's no gain in smaller droplets at the highlights. There
should be a gain in smaller droplets used from 33% up to 100% if
that is actually working out as nice in practice as in theory.
Bleeding could spoil the fun though the ink amount is the same
and it takes more time to lay down 100% from 3 heads with finer
droplets than from one with bigger droplets = more drying time.
The same amount of ink in smaller droplets has however more total
circumference length which should increase bleed effect. That can
be compensated with linearising but small changes in humidity and
papercoatings could show faster in multihead BO printing than in
singlehead BO printing. If linearisation is an easy task it
should be done daily.

3 times the nozzle amount must add to the consistency, especially
on banding, the chance that a nozzle doesn't work gets 3x higher
with the number of nozzles but its effect will be reduced with
2/3 as well. The same for nozzle deflection. A total blocking of
one nozzle is just one state of quality decrease and its one that
is easily noticed. Much more frequent is a permanent difference
between the outputs of nozzles. That is much better compensated
in multihead BO printing than it is in singlehead BO printing.
There should be a smoother tonal gradation with multihead BO
printing from 33% to the shadows and an overall better
consistency which should in itself improve the smoothness of the
highlights too.

There's one thing that may spoil the whole concept. Are the
dithering, weaving routines in Black Only printing the same or
similar to the CMYK routines ?
In QTR or another driver?
QTR has an advantage as not that many RIPs will drive the desktop
models with their finer droplets and QTR has good routines for
dithering etc. The Wasatch SoftRip that I have could do all but
lacks in desktop printer drivers and its d/w routines are not
that good. Taking out one of the CMY channels could address the
interference of black generation in some drivers and RIPs. I
still have PressReady that I used for a 3000 and wonder whether
that RIP could be used by feeding it odd CMYK files.

Are there pitfalls that I missed ?

Ernst

Re: [Digital BW] Multihead BO (theoretical more or less)

2003-12-29 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> 4 colour printer should be adequate. The new R800 (7  heads,
>not yet available) has the finest droplet size so far but which
>existing 4 colour printer comes next ?
>

The C84 has 3 picoliter minimum drop size.. with six sizes of variable 
drops.. It's designed for  the DuraBrite inks.. It's Black head has 180 
nozzles, the color head has 177 nozzles (59 per color)

If you go to 6 colors, the 960 has 2 picoliter drops.. BUT, it's 
designed for dye-based inks.. The Black head has 192 nozzles... The 
color head has 480 nozzles (96 per color).  I don't know haow many sizes 
of drops the 960 has..



 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Re: [Digital BW] Multihead BO (theoretical more or less)

2003-12-29 by Ernst Dinkla

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Multihead BO (theoretical more or less)


> 4 colour printer should be adequate. The new R800 (7  heads,
>not yet available) has the finest droplet size so far but which
>existing 4 colour printer comes next ?
>

>The C84 has 3 picoliter minimum drop size.. with six sizes of
variable
drops.. It's designed for  the DuraBrite inks.. It's Black head
has 180
nozzles, the color head has 177 nozzles (59 per color)<

The six sizes are most likely not all used in one setting. At
2880 you get most likely a range of 3 with the minimum droplet
included. You need all the CMY heads to add a substantial nozzle
quantity in this case. Wonder whether the droplet size variation
is equal for the CMY and the K head. Any idea ?


>If you go to 6 colors, the 960 has 2 picoliter drops.. BUT, it's
designed for dye-based inks.. The Black head has 192 nozzles...
The
color head has 480 nozzles (96 per color).  I don't know haow
many sizes
of drops the 960 has..<

Has it been used with third party pigment ? The 2 picolitre is
nice and the range of droplet sizes doesn't matter that much as
long as the number of heads used is high enough to divide the
range so the printer is forced to use the minimal droplet. 672
nozzles means 3,7 x the number of black head nozzles of the Epson
10000 that can print acceptable BO with 8 passes. Minimum droplet
size of the last is 5 picolitre. Using the 960 with 4 passes
still brings 4,5x better quality potential.

Meanwhile I wonder whether the deflection of the minimal droplets
is so high compared to bigger droplets that there is no advantage
because the detail is lost from say 50 to 100%. That can only be
checked with trials.

Ernst

Re: [Digital BW] Multihead BO (theoretical more or less)

2003-12-30 by Roy Harrington

Ernst,

I'm not so sure you'd benefit from using the more inkjets for BO
printing but it's hard to know for sure.  If you had a printer that had 
inconsistent jets using more different jets might help in banding
problems though.   If you could intelligently (i.e. custom special
driver) do the microweave algorithms you might be able to get a
speed improvement.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ernst Dinkla" 
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@p...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 4:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Multihead BO (theoretical more or less)
> 
> 
> > 4 colour printer should be adequate. The new R800 (7  heads,
> >not yet available) has the finest droplet size so far but which
> >existing 4 colour printer comes next ?
> >
> 
> >The C84 has 3 picoliter minimum drop size.. with six sizes of
> variable
> drops.. It's designed for  the DuraBrite inks.. It's Black head
> has 180
> nozzles, the color head has 177 nozzles (59 per color)<
> 
> The six sizes are most likely not all used in one setting. At
> 2880 you get most likely a range of 3 with the minimum droplet
> included. You need all the CMY heads to add a substantial nozzle
> quantity in this case. Wonder whether the droplet size variation
> is equal for the CMY and the K head. Any idea ?

All the variable droplet sizes I've seen so far have up to 3 sizes at
a particular resolution -- (two bits are sent to the printer for each
position 0=no dot, 1=small dot, 2=medium dot, 3=large dot).
I've never seen it mentioned in the docs that the dotsizes of CMY
versus K could be different -- gimp-print assumes they are the same.

At a resolution of 2880x1440 I think the printers all use just the
smallest dot.  At 1440x720 they typically use all 3 sizes.  The
dotsize ratios vary but 4pl, 8pl, 16pl (picoliters) is in the ballpark.
Consider a rectangle 1/1440 x 1/720 inch,  at 1440x720 you
could have 4, 8, or 16pl of ink, at 2880x1440 you can have up
to 4 drops of 4pl ink or 4, 8, 12, 16pl.

I'm not sure, but it may be theoretically possible to overprint an
additional dot over an existing dot on subsequent passes.  You 
certainly could if you were using all the jets with BO.

> 
> 
> >If you go to 6 colors, the 960 has 2 picoliter drops.. BUT, it's
> designed for dye-based inks.. The Black head has 192 nozzles...
> The
> color head has 480 nozzles (96 per color).  I don't know haow
> many sizes
> of drops the 960 has..<
> 
> Has it been used with third party pigment ? The 2 picolitre is
> nice and the range of droplet sizes doesn't matter that much as
> long as the number of heads used is high enough to divide the
> range so the printer is forced to use the minimal droplet. 672
> nozzles means 3,7 x the number of black head nozzles of the Epson
> 10000 that can print acceptable BO with 8 passes. Minimum droplet
> size of the last is 5 picolitre. Using the 960 with 4 passes
> still brings 4,5x better quality potential.
> 
> Meanwhile I wonder whether the deflection of the minimal droplets
> is so high compared to bigger droplets that there is no advantage
> because the detail is lost from say 50 to 100%. That can only be
> checked with trials.

My feeling is that there really isn't detail down to the 1440 or 2880
dpi range, you need those dpi's to take advantage of dithering for
smoothness.

> 
> Ernst

Roy

Re: [Digital BW] Multihead BO (theoretical more or less)

2003-12-30 by Ernst Dinkla

Roy, you wrote

>I'm not so sure you'd benefit from using the more inkjets for BO
printing but it's hard to know for sure.  If you had a printer
that had
inconsistent jets using more different jets might help in banding
problems though.   If you could intelligently (i.e. custom
special
driver) do the microweave algorithms you might be able to get a
speed improvement.<

With enough nozzles available there will be a choice of speed or
quality, I have no idea what is needed in new drivers then, there
are lower resolution settings already available. With a new
driver and single head BO you could achieve better weaving with
N-passes but the speed would be much lower. There's always a
compromise between speed and quality. But lower speed also adds
in more drying time so less bleed = quality.

I guess all the 672 nozzles of the 960 for BO would be over the
top. Reserve 3 heads for CMY and the rest for black and there's
some colourprinting left including toning. The C84 seems a more
likely candidate though. The Gimp-print driver is in its early
stages.

Whether one should give the black heads the same black head curve
"ramps" is another issue. If there's more than one droplet size
left it may be wiser to change the ramp's angles a bit so the
droplet shifts fall in different greysteps. That will even out
another inconsistency.

Epson could make a nice BO printer with one cart and a head with
300 to 400 nozzles, 1.5 picoliter minimum droplets. But is it
wise to make a printer for 35 mm B&W printing ?-)

The 4000 has two 180 nozzles black heads but you can't use them
simultaneously with the existing drivers, Gimp-print could if
there's no real hardware/firmware blockade. 3.5 picolitre is not
fine enough though.

Ernst

Re: [Digital BW] Multihead BO (theoretical more or less)

2003-12-30 by Ernst Dinkla

>If you go to 6 colors, the 960 has 2 picoliter drops.. BUT, it's
designed for dye-based inks.. The Black head has 192 nozzles...
The
color head has 480 nozzles (96 per color).  I don't know haow
many sizes
of drops the 960 has..<

Keith,

In fact the 960 uses twinhead BO printing already. Two black
carts, per cart 96 nozzles like the rest of the heads. In fact
the first 8 head design, earlier than the 4000. It is done for
speed this time but another driver could change that.

Are there 960 users on this list ? How good is the BO quality ?

Ernst

Re: [Digital BW] Multihead BO (theoretical more or less)

2003-12-30 by Ernst Dinkla

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Ernst Dinkla" <E.Dinkla@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Multihead BO (theoretical more or less)



>>If you go to 6 colors, the 960 has 2 picoliter drops.. BUT,
it's
designed for dye-based inks.. The Black head has 192 nozzles...
The
color head has 480 nozzles (96 per color).  I don't know haow
many sizes
of drops the 960 has..<<

>Keith,

In fact the 960 uses twinhead BO printing already. Two black
carts, per cart 96 nozzles like the rest of the heads. In fact
the first 8 head design, earlier than the 4000. It is done for
speed this time but another driver could change that.

Are there 960 users on this list ? How good is the BO quality ?

Ernst<

Think I'm a bit too enthusiastic, it is actually a single array
head, seven colour with 672 nozzles. Similar to the 9600, 7600,
2200 head. But with 2 picolitre minimum  droplet size. Price is
interesting too if compared to the 2200.

Ernst

Re: [Digital BW] Multihead BO (theoretical more or less)

2003-12-31 by Clayton Jones

Hello Ernst,

>Are there 960 users on this list?  How good is the BO quality?

I received a BO print and ramp/step wedge from a 960 user.  The dots
seem to be made of pairs of droplets, giving them an elongated
appearance and a size equal to or slightly larger than the dots my
2200 produces.  The gradient ramp did not look any smoother (in terms
of graininess) than my 2200 ramp, and it did have several faint but
distinct steps which my 2200 doesn't have.

So the bottom line, at least from these examples, is that I see no
advantage of the 960 over the 2200.

As for the 960 ink, the color had a cool blue-green tint.  I am
wondering if the 2pl droplet heads will have any problems
with pigment inks.  Has anyone tried Eboni in a 960?


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
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