Digital BW, The Print

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to the site.  I am deciding which computer to get for my digital darkroom.  I am specifically interested in the question for doing black and white digital work.  I expect this machine to last for some years.  I don't typically replace machines frequently.  Is there any software that helps black and white printing that is specific to Windows or the Mac? Or is software available to pretty much both?  I've noticed some comments about drivers for scanners and printers not working well with the Mac OS but not sure this typical.

I don't want to start a war of words between Mac and Windows users.  I'm familiar with all the arguments for both.  I'm just want to consider it from a digital black and white point of view only.  I think it is a close call as there are users of both that seem to do pretty well.  

Thanks,
Mike

So don't. Ask the question somewhere else please.
Mark

On Jan 12, 2004, at 12:20 PM, mjohn27603@... wrote:

> I don't want to start a war of words between Mac and Windows users.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Mike,

IMO, either. The decision will probably boil down to what tools you want/need are available for which platform and, also, who you work with. For example, if most your friends have the PC platform you may want to steer that direction because help will be readily available. If you will be working with outside vendors who are primarily Mac-based, you may swing that way. It's really six-or-one-half-dozen-or-another.

Several years ago the Mac was really the only choice, IMHO, because ColorSync color management was light years ahead of color manangement on the PC. However, recent versions of Windoze have, basically, caught up. For myself, I started with a G4 Mac about 4 years ago, but have since migrated all my digital imaging to the PC because most of the tools I needed were, at least, at the time, only available for Windows. I still use my Mac, though.

Kind of a short answer, but this is a pretty wide topic.

Alan Huntley

> 
> From: mjohn27603@...
> Date: 2004/01/12 Mon PM 12:20:53 EST
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Mac and Windows
> 
> I don't want to start a war of words between Mac and Windows users.  I'm familiar with all the arguments for both.  I'm just want to consider it from a digital black and white point of view only.  I think it is a close call as there are users of both that seem to do pretty well.

Either system works well for me.  My only suggestion is that this topic
be taken off-list and emails be sent to you personally as I can see this
topic take an ugly turn.

Eileen

On Monday, January 12, 2004, at 11:20  AM, mjohn27603@... wrote:

>  I'm just want to consider it from a digital black and white point of 
> view only.

I think this is a good question for this forum and is not the same Us 
vs. Them flame fest.

 From what I have picked up reading here for the past few weeks there 
are RIPs and other software directly related to printing B&W that are 
not available for both platforms. What are they and what are the 
differences in the RIPs and software, no need to go farther.

cort

--
Cort Anderson
Training Wheels, llc
www.trwheels.com
620-488-2960
620-488-3196 fax

>I'm new to the site.  I am deciding which computer to get for my digital
>darkroom.  I am specifically interested in the question for doing black and
>white digital work. ...  Is there any software that helps black and white
>printing that is specific to Windows or the Mac. ...

I think there is some relevant information that is appropriate for this
forum.

You may want to research the inks and software approaches before deciding.

Roy's QTR approach works only on Mac. 

For the Ultra Tone 2 (UT2) system one can use any application for some
control, but you'll want to be able to use Photoshop curves for the best
control.  If you have not already bought Photoshop, you can save a bunch of
money by purchasing Digital Light and Color's Picture Window program.
(http://www.dl-c.com/Temp/) I think it is the only non-Photoshop program
that will open those files, and I also think it is Windows only.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I agree that these can be touchy questions, sometimes posed by people that
drop in just for that purpose. How should he find the answer if this is a
legitimate question? Why not recommend the correct forum to find the answer
to this question? 

Anyway, I need both. If you cannot afford two machines, I have a Mac with
four OS's (OSX, OS9, Win2K, and X11 front end to Darwin) precisely because
there are various tools that only exist on one platform, and I want to be
able to use them. Of course it would be cheaper to buy a PC and run OSX if
that were possible, but since it is not...

Wendel

> 
> So don't. Ask the question somewhere else please.
> Mark
> 
> On Jan 12, 2004, at 12:20 PM, mjohn27603@... wrote:
> 
>> I don't want to start a war of words between Mac and Windows users.

Mike,

This might be tough to do at this point but if you can start at the
end (the printer) and work backwards it could help you to decide. In
my case I only have 1 printer dedicated for photos (an Epson 2200), I
don't have a dedicated printer for B+W. As such I consider myself
fortunate to be on a Mac because Roy's wonderful QuadTone RIP (QTR)
runs on Mac OS X and I needed QTR to get B+W prints I'm happy with out
of the 2200.

If on the other hand you think you will have a printer dedicated to
B+W work that might not be as important a consideration.

Art

mjohn27603@... writes:

> I'm new to the site.  I am deciding which computer to get for my
> digital darkroom.  I am specifically interested in the question for
> doing black and white digital work.  I expect this machine to last for
> some years.  I don't typically replace machines frequently.  Is there
> any software that helps black and white printing that is specific to
> Windows or the Mac? Or is software available to pretty much both? 
> I've noticed some comments about drivers for scanners and printers not
> working well with the Mac OS but not sure this typical.

Both platforms are largely equivalent.  Personally I'd choose a Windows
machine mainly because of lower cost and a larger range of applications
and compatible hardware.  The Mac once had a clear lead in graphics and
imaging applications, but most of that has evaporated in most contexts,
and in any case it is only a consideration if the computer will be used
for no other purpose (if the computer will serve multiple purposes, a
Windows PC is again a more practical choice).

"I expect this machine to last for some years. I don't
typically replace machines frequently."


The computer industry loves product upgrades. If you don't upgrade,
then using the 
computer gets more and more difficult. You eventually want new
capabilities, but your 
old system can't do them. You'll be happier in the long run if you
resign to upgrading 
your hardware every three years. Yes, you can hold out longer, but
three years is the 
point of diminishing returns. Too much aggravation after that. Things
move fast these 
days.

For example, the latest version of Photoshop is slower than the
previous version. It 
has more features too. What do you bet the software developers all
use nice fast new 
machines. They optimize for the current generation of hardware. 

You can't buy a solution - software or hardware - that will be great
now and great in 
three years. By that time, all kinds of newer better solutions will
be around. And you'll 
want them, especially if you're reading this list. 

Face it - you have to keep keep upgrading and changing and learning
new 
technologies. It will never stop.

At 12:22 PM 1/12/2004, Paul Roark wrote:
>Roy's QTR approach works only on Mac.

... and on Linux. It's working wonderfully for me on a 2200 printer and a 
Redhat 9 Linux server. I've purchased a 7600 which I will be setting up on 
it in a few weeks.

Stan

================================
Photography by Stan McQueen
http://www.smcqueen.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"dale90045" <e1-pdsq-qn36-6kgw@e...> wrote:

> The computer industry loves product upgrades. If you don't 
>upgrade, then using the computer gets more and more difficult. 
>You eventually want new capabilities, but your old system can't 
>do them. You'll be happier in the long run if you resign to 
>upgrading your hardware every three years. Yes, you can hold 
>out longer, but three years is the point of diminishing returns. 
>Too much aggravation after that. Things move fast these 
>days.

This all depends on what one truly wants to do, as opposed to 
what "the industry" thinks you should wan t and have by now. 
Their business, principally, is getting more and more product out 
the door.

Being on the percieved "bleeding edge" too often involves 
bloodletting of one's own; anyone who has ever reached a point 
of having their working system doing damn near everything they 
need, only to have things fall apart by acquiescing to urges from 
others to "get with it" knows what I'm talking about.

My theory about the "three-year" cycle goes something like this: 
by the time a given pieve of hardware or software (more often the 
latter) has reached a high level of refinement, and a given 
comfort level among its users, it becomes time, from the 
business sensibility of the manufacturer, to pull the plug on said 
product and start the cycle over again. From a business 
standpoint, it's sheer genius; from and end-user perspective, it 
too often leaves a good deal to be desired.  On occasion, it 
makes *good* sense to upgrade, but never blindly, or just for the 
sake of something being "the very latest".

"Promise perfection, but keep it just out of reach". It works for Bill 
Gates, and possibly for Epson...

- Barrett (who only recently moved to OS 9, and is "studying" X)