Digital BW, The Print

I´m buying a brand new 1160,that I'll dedicate to BW,using MIS inks. Two questions:

1.Since I usually don´t like toning the prints, just ol'plain neutral BW,is there any point in buying any other inkset than the FS-Neutral,the famous UT-2 for example?
2.Do I have to install and run the color inks that will came with the printer,or can I install the CIS with the BW inks just straight out of the box?

Thanks,

André Vallejo
http://andrevallejo.net


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thursday, January 15, 2004, 4:01:20 PM, you wrote:

AV> 1.Since I usually don\ufffdt like toning the prints, just ol'plain
AV> neutral BW,is there any point in buying any other inkset than the
AV> FS-Neutral,the famous UT-2 for example?

If it's "just ol'plain neutral BW" you want forget the MIS FS-N inks.
I used them for about a year in my 1160 with Randall curves. Very nice
prints, almost neutral (slightly warm) when printed, but warm to a
rich, almost sepia within a few months. Under glass fares better but
still changes. Now I use a 2200 with MIS's Eboni black ink. Still a
smidgen warm but much less so.

-- 
Best regards,
 Richard                            mailto:richard@...

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, André Vallejo 
<avs@p...> wrote:
> I´m buying a brand new 1160,that I'll dedicate to BW,using MIS 
inks. Two questions:
> 
> 1.Since I usually don´t like toning the prints, just ol'plain 
neutral BW,is there any point in buying any other inkset than the FS-
Neutral,the famous UT-2 for example?
> 2.Do I have to install and run the color inks that will came with 
the printer,or can I install the CIS with the BW inks just straight 
out of the box?

Using the original Epson inks to test your printer may be a wise 
decision. If it bands or clogs you'll know that it's not because of 
third party inks.

I use an Epson 1160 with the original Ultra-Tones (MIS-UT) inkset, 
having switched from the MIS-FSN inkset because of the choices of 
curves (Sepia, warm, selenium and cool) and also because of the 
better longevity of these inks over the FS-N inkset.

However, the new UT2 inkset will not work in a Epson 1160. 

Cheers,
Andre

André,


>I´m buying a brand new 1160,that I'll dedicate to BW,using MIS inks. Two
>questions:

>1.Since I usually don´t like toning the prints, just ol'plain neutral BW,is
>there any point in buying any other inkset than the FS-Neutral,the famous
>UT-2 for example?

In a week or so there will be a new UT-FSN that will have the longevity of
the UT family (and run on glossy paper with Photo K).  Please don't call MIS
about this until I announce the availability.  I have written new curves for
the 1160 and 3000.   


>2.Do I have to install and run the color inks that will came with the
>printer, or can I install the CIS with the BW inks just straight out of the
>box?

I hear both sides of this.  If you do use the dyes first, I recommend
cleaning the pads before using Eboni.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

I'm not much into Black & White any more.. but some of your work is really 
impressive

Rafi

At 19:00 1/16/2004, you wrote:

>André,
>
>
> >I´m buying a brand new 1160,that I'll dedicate to BW,using MIS inks. Two
> >questions:

what do you think Paul, will this provide a smoother and more 
consistant gradient with an 1160 than your current curves?

thanks,

mark

...
> In a week or so there will be a new UT-FSN that will have the 
longevity of
> the UT family (and run on glossy paper with Photo K
...

Great new Paul,I'll certainly be waiting.
As for the second question,so it IS not an awful idea to go straight with
the MIS inks rigth? As I still have ink in bottles here (VM and the warm FS)
I can use it for a while,making tests and so until the new inks are
out...then I just replace the bottles and purge the lines,right? And if
anything goes wrong I can always use the color dyes to check...

 From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
Subject: RE: New 1160

Andr\ufffd,


>I\ufffdm buying a brand new 1160,that I'll dedicate to BW,using MIS inks. Two
>questions:

>1.Since I usually don\ufffdt like toning the prints, just ol'plain neutral BW,is
>there any point in buying any other inkset than the FS-Neutral,the famous
>UT-2 for example?

In a week or so there will be a new UT-FSN that will have the longevity of
the UT family (and run on glossy paper with Photo K).  Please don't call MIS
about this until I announce the availability.  I have written new curves for
the 1160 and 3000.


>2.Do I have to install and run the color inks that will came with the
>printer, or can I install the CIS with the BW inks just straight out of the
>box?

I hear both sides of this.  If you do use the dyes first, I recommend
cleaning the pads before using Eboni.

Paul

Paul just wrote about the new FSs that are in the oven,so I'll be waiting.
But just in case,will the UT-2 print well with the 1160,on matte and luster
paper(changing the black,of course)? If I print mostly neutral,will it be as
neutral as the FS-N inks? How will it afect my inks  usage?
Thanks,
Andr\ufffd (the Brazilian one)

Message: 7
   Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:40:36 -0000

   From: "sceptre12345" <am1000@...>
Subject: Re: New 1160

---
Using the original Epson inks to test your printer may be a wise
decision. If it bands or clogs you'll know that it's not because of
third party inks.

I use an Epson 1160 with the original Ultra-Tones (MIS-UT) inkset,
having switched from the MIS-FSN inkset because of the choices of
curves (Sepia, warm, selenium and cool) and also because of the
better longevity of these inks over the FS-N inkset.

However, the new UT2 inkset will not work in a Epson 1160.

Cheers,
Andre

André,

>As for the second question,so it IS not an awful idea to go straight with
>the MIS inks right?

I've done it, but I've also heard people warn that one should be sure the
printer works with the OEM dyes first.  The most persuasive argument I've
heard in favor of this is that the machines have some preservative substance
in the head that is best cleaned out by Epson dyes.  (My impatient view was
that I'll load the OEM after the inks I want don’t appear to work.)

> As I still have ink in bottles here (VM and the warm FS)
>I can use it for a while, making tests and so until the new inks are
>out...then I just replace the bottles and purge the lines, right? 

Don't mix the new and old inks in a CIS.  If you are using carts, then there
is not incompatibility.  With a CIS you'd want to replace the cartridge part
of it whenever switching inks.

>...will the UT-2 print well with the 1160, on matte and luster paper
>(changing the black, of course)?

No, the UT2 inkset will not work in quads like the 1160 and 3000.  It is
strictly a modern hextone inkset.


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

 From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
Subject: RE: New 1160

André,


>I´m buying a brand new 1160,that I'll dedicate to BW,using MIS inks. Two
>questions:

>1.Since I usually don´t like toning the prints, just ol'plain neutral BW,is
>there any point in buying any other inkset than the FS-Neutral,the famous
>UT-2 for example?

In a week or so there will be a new UT-FSN that will have the longevity of
the UT family (and run on glossy paper with Photo K).  Please don't call MIS
about this until I announce the availability.  I have written new curves for
the 1160 and 3000.


>2.Do I have to install and run the color inks that will came with the
>printer, or can I install the CIS with the BW inks just straight out of the
>box?

I hear both sides of this.  If you do use the dyes first, I recommend
cleaning the pads before using Eboni.

Paul



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Thanks again Paul. Then it will be the new Neutrals when they come 
out. As I wait,I'll go spending the OEM inks...
About papers,after using several brands,I decided to stay with EEM 
for matte.It's cheap,good,and behind glass I can´t tell it from 
Hanhemmule at many times the price. 
When it comes to semi-matte,now I have a problem. I used to enjoy 
Brightcube SM a lot,spayed with Krylon,,but now the only shop I know 
that sells the paper,InkjetGoodies,won´t ship abroad anymore. What 
paper would you recommend for the same look? (I understand that I'll 
have to use PhotoBlack with whatever it is apart from matte papers)
Best,
Andre

> 
> >As for the second question,so it IS not an awful idea to go 
straight with
> >the MIS inks right?
> 
> I've done it, but I've also heard people warn that one should be 
sure the
> printer works with the OEM dyes first.  The most persuasive 
argument I've
> heard in favor of this is that the machines have some preservative 
substance
> in the head that is best cleaned out by Epson dyes.  (My impatient 
view was
> that I'll load the OEM after the inks I want don't appear to
work.)
> 
> > As I still have ink in bottles here (VM and the warm FS)
> >I can use it for a while, making tests and so until the new inks 
are
> >out...then I just replace the bottles and purge the lines, right? 
> 
> Don't mix the new and old inks in a CIS.  If you are using carts, 
then there
> is not incompatibility.  With a CIS you'd want to replace the 
cartridge part
> of it whenever switching inks.
> 
> >...will the UT-2 print well with the 1160, on matte and luster 
paper
> >(changing the black, of course)?
> 
> No, the UT2 inkset will not work in quads like the 1160 and 3000.  
It is
> strictly a modern hextone inkset.
> 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
/

Andre,

>About papers, ... I decided to stay with EEM for matte. ...

I just wish it were acid free.

>When it comes to semi-matte, now I have a problem. ...
>InkjetGoodies, won´t ship abroad anymore.

I wonder why?

> What paper would you recommend for the same look? 

I like Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl.  But, like EEM it's not acid free.

For permanence, Epson Premium Semigloss is the one I like.

>I understand that I'll have to use PhotoBlack ...

That is the conventional wisdom.  (I may have found a way to print with
Eboni with no rub-off.)

Paul
_____________________

> 
> >As for the second question,so it IS not an awful idea to go 
straight with
> >the MIS inks right?
> 
> I've done it, but I've also heard people warn that one should be 
sure the
> printer works with the OEM dyes first.  The most persuasive 
argument I've
> heard in favor of this is that the machines have some preservative 
substance
> in the head that is best cleaned out by Epson dyes.  (My impatient 
view was
> that I'll load the OEM after the inks I want don't appear to
work.)
> 
> > As I still have ink in bottles here (VM and the warm FS)
> >I can use it for a while, making tests and so until the new inks 
are
> >out...then I just replace the bottles and purge the lines, right? 
> 
> Don't mix the new and old inks in a CIS.  If you are using carts, 
then there
> is not incompatibility.  With a CIS you'd want to replace the 
cartridge part
> of it whenever switching inks.
> 
> >...will the UT-2 print well with the 1160, on matte and luster 
paper
> >(changing the black, of course)?
> 
> No, the UT2 inkset will not work in quads like the 1160 and 3000.  
It is
> strictly a modern hextone inkset.
> 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
/


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Please follow these basic guidelines:
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Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
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FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
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ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
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--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:

<snip>

> >I understand that I'll have to use PhotoBlack ...
> 
> That is the conventional wisdom.  (I may have found a way to print with
> Eboni with no rub-off.)
> 
> Paul

Can you give us a hint :) ?

Neil