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Digital BW, The Print

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Image Print highlight dots ?

Image Print highlight dots ?

2004-01-19 by Tom Salyer

After over three years printing Piezography on an Epson 1160, I just 
started working with Image Print and an Epson 2200 with my G4 Mac and 
OS 10.2.

As I have always printed Jon Cone's " Proof of Peizography "  grey 
scale file to see how a paper and ink combination works, I printed the 
file with the 2200 and IP for comparison on Archival Matte.

With the naked eye I see dots in the highlights along the 1 percent to 
5 percent bar, and even into the 10 or 15  percent bar on top. They are 
subtle, I have to stick my nose into the print to see them, but there 
are there. When I compare the same file printed on AM and Piezo, the 
bars a completely dot less and smooth as a baby's bottom.

Are the highlight dots of ink normal on Image Print ? Am I doing 
something wrong ? Am I fair comparing it to Piezo ?

Reprinting my old Peizo files with Image Print, I feel my results are 
just as good, except the faint dots in the highlights.

BTW, the same test file gives me good separation from 90 to 96 percent 
black, and I can just make out the 98 percent ring from the 100.

Working with Photo Matte Black ink, Color Mgmt > bitmap > Grey Gamma 
1.8 and profile ep2200mk_b_grey-archmatt2880 .

Thanks for the help !


Tom Salyer
Miami
www.tomsalyer.com

Re: [Digital BW] Image Print highlight dots ?

2004-01-20 by Tom Baker

While this may make a difference on small prints, but when viewing larger prints viewed at a normal viewing distance one won't see the dots.  So, does it really matter what the individual dots look like if the prints look good under normal conditions?  I don't think one notices these dots even on even an 8x10 without really looking.   
 
Anyway, the way things are going, we won't even have this issue in 12-18 months on the newest equipment, with the decreasing dot size, etc.
 
Tom Baker

Tom Salyer <tom@...> wrote:
After over three years printing Piezography on an Epson 1160, I just 
started working with Image Print and an Epson 2200 with my G4 Mac and 
OS 10.2.

As I have always printed Jon Cone's " Proof of Peizography "  grey 
scale file to see how a paper and ink combination works, I printed the 
file with the 2200 and IP for comparison on Archival Matte.

With the naked eye I see dots in the highlights along the 1 percent to 
5 percent bar, and even into the 10 or 15  percent bar on top. They are 
subtle, I have to stick my nose into the print to see them, but there 
are there. When I compare the same file printed on AM and Piezo, the 
bars a completely dot less and smooth as a baby's bottom.

Are the highlight dots of ink normal on Image Print ? Am I doing 
something wrong ? Am I fair comparing it to Piezo ?

Reprinting my old Peizo files with Image Print, I feel my results are 
just as good, except the faint dots in the highlights.

BTW, the same test file gives me good separation from 90 to 96 percent 
black, and I can just make out the 98 percent ring from the 100.

Working with Photo Matte Black ink, Color Mgmt > bitmap > Grey Gamma 
1.8 and profile ep2200mk_b_grey-archmatt2880 .

Thanks for the help !


Tom Salyer
Miami
www.tomsalyer.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Image Print highlight dots ?

2004-01-20 by Mark Hahn

I never noticed the dots before you mentioned it, but you are right, 
if you look really really close you can see them... though it doesn't 
look bad enough to worry about... kind of like worrying that you can 
still see a bit of grain when you print Technical Pan film...

mark 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker 
<tbaker1328@s...> wrote:
> While this may make a difference on small prints, but when viewing 
larger prints viewed at a normal viewing distance one won't see the 
dots.  So, does it really matter what the individual dots look like 
if the prints look good under normal conditions?  I don't think one 
notices these dots even on even an 8x10 without really looking.   
>  
> Anyway, the way things are going, we won't even have this issue in 
12-18 months on the newest equipment, with the decreasing dot size, 
etc.
>  
> Tom Baker
> 
> Tom Salyer <tom@t...> wrote:
> After over three years printing Piezography on an Epson 1160, I 
just 
> started working with Image Print and an Epson 2200 with my G4 Mac 
and 
> OS 10.2.
> 
> As I have always printed Jon Cone's " Proof of Peizography "  grey 
> scale file to see how a paper and ink combination works, I printed 
the 
> file with the 2200 and IP for comparison on Archival Matte.
> 
> With the naked eye I see dots in the highlights along the 1 percent 
to 
> 5 percent bar, and even into the 10 or 15  percent bar on top. They 
are 
> subtle, I have to stick my nose into the print to see them, but 
there 
> are there. When I compare the same file printed on AM and Piezo, 
the 
> bars a completely dot less and smooth as a baby's bottom.
> 
> Are the highlight dots of ink normal on Image Print ? Am I doing 
> something wrong ? Am I fair comparing it to Piezo ?
> 
> Reprinting my old Peizo files with Image Print, I feel my results 
are 
> just as good, except the faint dots in the highlights.
> 
> BTW, the same test file gives me good separation from 90 to 96 
percent 
> black, and I can just make out the 98 percent ring from the 100.
> 
> Working with Photo Matte Black ink, Color Mgmt > bitmap > Grey 
Gamma 
> 1.8 and profile ep2200mk_b_grey-archmatt2880 .
> 
> Thanks for the help !
> 
> 
> Tom Salyer
> Miami
> www.tomsalyer.com
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" 
in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, 
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT 
LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER 
INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL 
BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF 
SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT 
OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) 
ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>    To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>   
>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   
>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 
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> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Image Print highlight dots ?

2004-01-20 by hogarth

On Mon, 2004-01-19 at 17:01, Tom Salyer wrote:

> After over three years printing Piezography on an Epson 1160, I just 
> started working with Image Print and an Epson 2200 with my G4 Mac and 
> OS 10.2.
> 
> As I have always printed Jon Cone's " Proof of Peizography "  grey 
> scale file to see how a paper and ink combination works, I printed the 
> file with the 2200 and IP for comparison on Archival Matte.
> 
> With the naked eye I see dots in the highlights along the 1 percent to 
> 5 percent bar, and even into the 10 or 15  percent bar on top. They are 
> subtle, I have to stick my nose into the print to see them, but there 
> are there. When I compare the same file printed on AM and Piezo, the 
> bars a completely dot less and smooth as a baby's bottom.
> 
> Are the highlight dots of ink normal on Image Print ? Am I doing 
> something wrong ? Am I fair comparing it to Piezo ?
> 
> Reprinting my old Peizo files with Image Print, I feel my results are 
> just as good, except the faint dots in the highlights.
> 
> BTW, the same test file gives me good separation from 90 to 96 percent 
> black, and I can just make out the 98 percent ring from the 100.
> 
> Working with Photo Matte Black ink, Color Mgmt > bitmap > Grey Gamma 
> 1.8 and profile ep2200mk_b_grey-archmatt2880 .
> 
> Thanks for the help !
> 
> 
> Tom Salyer


This is why Cone produced his inksets in the first place, AFAIK. He
wanted detail in the shadows that he couldn't get otherwise, and dotless
highlights that he couldn't get without light gray ink. 

If you can live without these things, then Imageprint and the UC inks
should work for you.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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