Digital BW, The Print

Hi all,
I began photography a year ago now. I only had a cheap Snapscan E52 
to scan my negatives and post the result on photo.net 
(http://www.tinyurl/2m89b) For now it was just ok for me and web 
editing. 

Traditional printing is for sure very interesting but it demands a 
lot of time and years of practicing to achieve a good print.
I work in video games industry as a computer 3D Artist for over 10 
years now and I've been using Photoshop since v2.0
So digital printing seems to me much more efficient and practical. 

Now I am considering to go a little further into photography, making 
a portfolio and exhibitions if possible.
As my budget is quite limited I plan to buy a Nikon Coolscan V ED for 
my negatives and a printer which I did not choose yet.
I am considering an Epson 1290S or 2100/2200.

The MIS Ultratone system is very interesting as it seems very easy to 
use. Easier and cheaper than the Lyson ink system or the Piezography 
system.  
I've read many things about the Epson 1280 with UT2 but I can't find 
this printer here in France. Is it the same type as the 1290S ?
Are the prints better with UT-7 than with UT-2 ? 
What is the difference in term of quality ?
Which printer do you recommend ?

Thanks for your advice and help.

.Thierry Burlot.
www.tinyurl/2m89b

>...
>I am considering an Epson 1290S or 2100/2200.

>The MIS Ultratone system is very interesting ...
>I've read many things about the Epson 1280 with UT2 but I can't find 
>this printer here in France. Is it the same type as the 1290S?

Unfortunately, they do not appear to be the same.  UT2 & the 1280 curves do
not work quite right on the 1290.  So, some adjustments will need to be made
by 1290 users.

PermaJet is going to be selling a variant of the inkset called the New VT
Blax that they will optimize for the 1290.

>Are the prints better with UT-7 than with UT-2? 

They are about the same.  The UT7 was just needed because the pigment-based
printers use different assumptions about the ink gamuts than the dye
printers (because the dye and pigment gamuts are different).

>What is the difference in term of quality ?

I think the quality of prints from my 1280 and 2200 is very close.  (With
the 1280/90 you'll have to remove the pizza wheels to avoid marks on gloss
papers.)  I generally find the newer the printer the better.  The 2200 is
faster.  The individual carts may be an advantage.  I'm told continuous flow
systems work very well with the 2200.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/

Thanks Paul for your answer.
I have an Epson Stylus Color Pro sleeping for years in a box.
Before strating with a new Epson printer, do you think it is worth buying the Quadtone System ink + Refilling Kit or is this printer much too old for that ?

.Thierry Burlot.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul Roark 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 7:51 PM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] New into Digital Printing -- Epson 1290S or 2100/2200 ?


  >...
  >I am considering an Epson 1290S or 2100/2200.

  >The MIS Ultratone system is very interesting ...
  >I've read many things about the Epson 1280 with UT2 but I can't find 
  >this printer here in France. Is it the same type as the 1290S?

  Unfortunately, they do not appear to be the same.  UT2 & the 1280 curves do
  not work quite right on the 1290.  So, some adjustments will need to be made
  by 1290 users.

  PermaJet is going to be selling a variant of the inkset called the New VT
  Blax that they will optimize for the 1290.

  >Are the prints better with UT-7 than with UT-2? 

  They are about the same.  The UT7 was just needed because the pigment-based
  printers use different assumptions about the ink gamuts than the dye
  printers (because the dye and pigment gamuts are different).

  >What is the difference in term of quality ?

  I think the quality of prints from my 1280 and 2200 is very close.  (With
  the 1280/90 you'll have to remove the pizza wheels to avoid marks on gloss
  papers.)  I generally find the newer the printer the better.  The 2200 is
  faster.  The individual carts may be an advantage.  I'm told continuous flow
  systems work very well with the 2200.

  Paul
  www.PaulRoark.com 

  For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
  http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/ 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 29/2/04 8:10 pm, "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com"
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> Message: 22
>  Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:51:59 -0800
>  From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
> Subject: RE: New into Digital Printing -- Epson 1290S or 2100/2200 ?

> PermaJet is going to be selling a variant of the inkset called the New VT
> Blax that they will optimize for the 1290.


I'm looking at various options for B&W, and still can't make up my mind. If
the MIS inks were available from a UK supplier life would be easier. Do you
know if the Fotospeed Ultra II inks are the same as from MIS? I want to try
out a single cartridge first, but Fotospeed here only sell it for a CIS.

I looked at Permajets products at the Focus exhibition in the UK last week,
but there was no mention of new VT Blax inks. They are another option I'm
considering. How are the new inks, when announced, improved? The current VT
Blax was being demo'd on a 1290s as I use, I was tempted then to buy a
starter pack, but indecision took over.

Steve Bell

I believe you are not being very realistic to think that somehow digital printing is 'easier' than darkroom.  You still must know what you are doing in terms of get an image to produce what you want.  No matter digital file, or conventional enlarger processing.  (If you are printing art that is computer generated, this probably doesn't apply because you are creating and controlling the image from scratch.)
 
This seems to be a major misconception, not only with inexperienced photographers, but also, some members of the art community.
 
Planning on doing your homework, and practice.  But, it's fun.  The process of learning photography can be quite rewarding by itself.  The process of learning to print is just as demanding, but expremely rewarding.
 
Tom Baker

Zeb <thierryburlot@...> wrote:
Hi all,
I began photography a year ago now. I only had a cheap Snapscan E52 
to scan my negatives and post the result on photo.net 
(http://www.tinyurl/2m89b) For now it was just ok for me and web 
editing. 

Traditional printing is for sure very interesting but it demands a 
lot of time and years of practicing to achieve a good print.
I work in video games industry as a computer 3D Artist for over 10 
years now and I've been using Photoshop since v2.0
So digital printing seems to me much more efficient and practical. 

Now I am considering to go a little further into photography, making 
a portfolio and exhibitions if possible.
As my budget is quite limited I plan to buy a Nikon Coolscan V ED for 
my negatives and a printer which I did not choose yet.
I am considering an Epson 1290S or 2100/2200.

The MIS Ultratone system is very interesting as it seems very easy to 
use. Easier and cheaper than the Lyson ink system or the Piezography 
system.  
I've read many things about the Epson 1280 with UT2 but I can't find 
this printer here in France. Is it the same type as the 1290S ?
Are the prints better with UT-7 than with UT-2 ? 
What is the difference in term of quality ?
Which printer do you recommend ?

Thanks for your advice and help.

.Thierry Burlot.
www.tinyurl/2m89b






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thierry,

>I have an Epson Stylus Color Pro sleeping for years in a box.

>Before strating with a new Epson printer, do you think it is worth buying
>the Quadtone System ink + Refilling Kit or is this printer much too old for
>that ?


I would not attempt to use a printer that is not specifically supported for
the inkset you want.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/
___________


.Thierry Burlot.

  ----- Original Message ----- 

  From: Paul Roark 

  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 

  Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 7:51 PM

  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] New into Digital Printing -- Epson 1290S or
2100/2200 ?





  >...

  >I am considering an Epson 1290S or 2100/2200.



  >The MIS Ultratone system is very interesting ...

  >I've read many things about the Epson 1280 with UT2 but I can't find 

  >this printer here in France. Is it the same type as the 1290S?



  Unfortunately, they do not appear to be the same.  UT2 & the 1280 curves
do

  not work quite right on the 1290.  So, some adjustments will need to be
made

  by 1290 users.



  PermaJet is going to be selling a variant of the inkset called the New VT

  Blax that they will optimize for the 1290.



  >Are the prints better with UT-7 than with UT-2? 



  They are about the same.  The UT7 was just needed because the
pigment-based

  printers use different assumptions about the ink gamuts than the dye

  printers (because the dye and pigment gamuts are different).



  >What is the difference in term of quality ?



  I think the quality of prints from my 1280 and 2200 is very close.  (With

  the 1280/90 you'll have to remove the pizza wheels to avoid marks on gloss

  papers.)  I generally find the newer the printer the better.  The 2200 is

  faster.  The individual carts may be an advantage.  I'm told continuous
flow

  systems work very well with the 2200.



  Paul

  www.PaulRoark.com 



  For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:

  http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/ 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
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>> PermaJet is going to be selling a variant of the inkset called the New VT
>> Blax that they will optimize for the 1290.


>... If the MIS inks were available from a UK supplier life would be easier.


The PermaJet inks are from the same family of inks as the MIS versions.

>Do you know if the Fotospeed Ultra II inks are the same as from MIS?

I don't know anything about them.

>I want to try out a single cartridge first, ...

PermaJet should have the new VT Blax in carts very soon.  I'd give them a
couple of weeks to get the curves and settings sorted out.  The New VT Blax
is much more lightfast and stable than the older ones.

Contact PermaJet to see what their schedule is.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Mr. Roark, is this the new VT Blax you mention in your website?  I have all these ink names 
mixed up. 

VT Blax is one ink like Eboni Black?

Thanks.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> 
wrote:

> 
> >> PermaJet is going to be selling a variant of the inkset called the New VT
> >> Blax that they will optimize for the 1290.
> 
> 
> >... If the MIS inks were available from a UK supplier life would be easier.
> 
> 
> The PermaJet inks are from the same family of inks as the MIS versions.
> 
> >Do you know if the Fotospeed Ultra II inks are the same as from MIS?
> 
> I don't know anything about them.
> 
> >I want to try out a single cartridge first, ...
> 
> PermaJet should have the new VT Blax in carts very soon.  I'd give them a
> couple of weeks to get the curves and settings sorted out.  The New VT Blax
> is much more lightfast and stable than the older ones.
> 
> Contact PermaJet to see what their schedule is.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

>... is this the new VT Blax you mention in your website?  
>I have all these ink names mixed up. 

>VT Blax is one ink like Eboni Black?

VT Blax is the name Permajet uses for its version of my variable-tone
inksets.  The old one is like MIS VM.  The New VT Blax is similar to UT2 in
its characteristics.  The system will be optimized for the 1290 printer as
opposed to the 1280.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
__________________


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> 
wrote:
> 
> >> PermaJet is going to be selling a variant of the inkset called the New
VT
> >> Blax that they will optimize for the 1290.
> 
> 
> >... If the MIS inks were available from a UK supplier life would be
easier.
> 
> 
> The PermaJet inks are from the same family of inks as the MIS versions.
> 
> >Do you know if the Fotospeed Ultra II inks are the same as from MIS?
> 
> I don't know anything about them.
> 
> >I want to try out a single cartridge first, ...
> 
> PermaJet should have the new VT Blax in carts very soon.  I'd give them a
> couple of weeks to get the curves and settings sorted out.  The New VT
Blax
> is much more lightfast and stable than the older ones.
> 
> Contact PermaJet to see what their schedule is.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
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