Digital BW, The Print

I now have to make a choice:

I have done so much research and had so many helpful posts, but I am 
now down to a decision. I am going for the Epson 7600. This will be 
for BW printing. (If I can print colour on it too, so much the 
better, but that is a very minor consideration.) I am having trouble 
as I cannot get a test print to show me the abilities of the 
Imageprint RIP used with UC inks, Matte black and the IP profile for 
a matte paper. Basically I am working blind on that one. I have seen 
a print supplied by Cone Editions, and was very impressed with it.

I saw a print from a 2200 done with the Imageprint RIP, Lyson inks, 
and photoblack, which left me cold. Very grey looking. Apparently 
they had a profile made for this combo. Print was very sharp, just 
very grey looking.

I am looking for:
Deep rich blacks (good DMAX) and good tonal values on matte papers 
such as Hahnemuhle Photo Rag. I would like if possible, to have the 
ability to print warmer or cooler tones.

Do I chose:

UC inks with matte black and the Imageprint RIP?
or
Cone editions inks with the Studio Print RIP?

Any final comments or pushes one way or the other?

Thanks again,

Ellie

Ellie  -
 
I've been printing with my 9600 and IP for almost a year.  Dmax will vary a bit from one ink/paper combination to another.  In general, on art papers, your UC dmax and the MIS dmax will be about the same.  I've never heard anyone say that my blacks are anything but black (and I'm in a tough crowd).  The prints are very, very nice.  Several on this forum produce gallery prints with this combination regularly, and quite successfully.  I don't have nozzle clogging problems.  It's very hassle free.  But, unfortunately, not low cost.
 
Since you're ready for the 7600, why not get the printer, and then download the IP demo and give it a try?  If you don't like the results, you can always go to another system.
 
Tom Baker

colorspanmam <Ellie@...> wrote:
I now have to make a choice:

I have done so much research and had so many helpful posts, but I am 
now down to a decision. I am going for the Epson 7600. This will be 
for BW printing. (If I can print colour on it too, so much the 
better, but that is a very minor consideration.) I am having trouble 
as I cannot get a test print to show me the abilities of the 
Imageprint RIP used with UC inks, Matte black and the IP profile for 
a matte paper. Basically I am working blind on that one. I have seen 
a print supplied by Cone Editions, and was very impressed with it.

I saw a print from a 2200 done with the Imageprint RIP, Lyson inks, 
and photoblack, which left me cold. Very grey looking. Apparently 
they had a profile made for this combo. Print was very sharp, just 
very grey looking.

I am looking for:
Deep rich blacks (good DMAX) and good tonal values on matte papers 
such as Hahnemuhle Photo Rag. I would like if possible, to have the 
ability to print warmer or cooler tones.

Do I chose:

UC inks with matte black and the Imageprint RIP?
or
Cone editions inks with the Studio Print RIP?

Any final comments or pushes one way or the other?

Thanks again,

Ellie



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Ellie--

One choice you might want to think about is Sundance Septone 
greyscale inks for the 7600.  I use these inks for the Epson 2200, 
and love them--they provide lush, rich prints, and with the CFS, 
no clogging or banding in the 5 months I have used them.  
These inks also give you a wide range of printing warm to cool 
grays, independently, in the shadows, midtones and highlights.  
This can give your work  a lovely split tone look, as well as 
neutral prints when you want them.  I use Entrada 
fine art paper, which provides very deep blacks.  I tried (and tried 
and tried and tried) using Epson ultrachrome inks to make black 
and white prints, but found them so frustrating that I decided to 
not bother trying to drive them with a RIP like Imageprint.  I was in 
no mood to trust them,  and the taste in my mouth was too sour.

Cheers, and kind regards

Yeung-Seu Yoon
Toronto, Ontario

Ellie,
You might like to spend some time and research your requiments in the 
forum archieves, there are many posts describing the pros and cons of 
the various solutions. The other factor to consider is that inks and 
rips are continually changing, much due to the efforts of people that 
regually post to the forum. 
You have not said what OS you are using. If it should be OS X then 
you might care to try QTR it's almost free and exremely effective.
Start off with the 7600 and try black only approach. It's very simple 
and very, very effectve. If you email me your address I'll send you a 
print for the cost of the postage if you like. (That goes for anyone 
else that would like to see one) full details of BO printing are 
available on Clayton Jones's web site.

As for the person that could not get decent B/W using Ultachrome 
inks, he should have tried the demo for IP, it's a pig to install, 
but the results are nothing short of spectacular. Once again, I 
prefer BO because of the cost.......
Take care.

Sierra Gold
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Yeung-Seu Yoon" 
<yeungseuyoon@y...> wrote:
> Hello Ellie--
> 
> One choice you might want to think about is Sundance Septone 
> greyscale inks for the 7600.  I use these inks for the Epson 2200, 
> and love them--they provide lush, rich prints, and with the CFS, 
> no clogging or banding in the 5 months I have used them.  
> These inks also give you a wide range of printing warm to cool 
> grays, independently, in the shadows, midtones and highlights.  
> This can give your work  a lovely split tone look, as well as 
> neutral prints when you want them.  I use Entrada 
> fine art paper, which provides very deep blacks.  I tried (and 
tried 
> and tried and tried) using Epson ultrachrome inks to make black 
> and white prints, but found them so frustrating that I decided to 
> not bother trying to drive them with a RIP like Imageprint.  I was 
in 

> no mood to trust them,  and the taste in my mouth was too sour.
> 
> Cheers, and kind regards
> 
> Yeung-Seu Yoon
> Toronto, Ontario

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"flyfishingusa2002" <tflyfish@c...> wrote:

> As for the person that could not get decent B/W using 
Ultachrome 
> inks, he should have tried the demo for IP, it's a pig to install, 
> but the results are nothing short of spectacular. Once again, I 
> prefer BO because of the cost.......
> Take care.

No ImagePrint, and I ain't got no regrets no how!!  ;-)

Yeung-Seu Yoon 
Toronto, Canada

Thanks again for the comments.

In reply to the question, I am using Windows XP, so QTR is out for us.

Our history is that we reproduce fine art (giclee prints for those who
like the term) using our Colorspan Esprit 11 colour printer. Of those 11
colours, there are four shades of black. We offered a service to local
photographers of printing their BW prints, and managed to produce some
absolutely beautiful deep rich BW prints. The problem is that there is
micro-banding that plagues us. Sometimes we had to print the same image
many many times before one came out that was acceptable to us. So now we
had a clientelle with no economical way of printing their work. This is a
business for us, and so another investment is clearly what we have to
make.

We might well consider trying the BO option, and at least d/l the trial
version of Imageprint before purchase. If you just prefer BO because of
the cost, we would probably chose to go for IP, as it is vital that we
please our customers...and quickly. It's not a hobby for us.

We are as cautious as this because we have found this microbanding issue
to be a terrible problem and want to avoid buying another system that will
let us down.

Many thanks for all the input,

Ellie


flyfishingusa2002 said:
> Ellie,
> You might like to spend some time and research your requiments in the
> forum archieves, there are many posts describing the pros and cons of
> the various solutions. The other factor to consider is that inks and
> rips are continually changing, much due to the efforts of people that
> regually post to the forum.
> You have not said what OS you are using. If it should be OS X then
> you might care to try QTR it's almost free and exremely effective.
> Start off with the 7600 and try black only approach. It's very simple
> and very, very effectve. If you email me your address I'll send you a
> print for the cost of the postage if you like. (That goes for anyone
> else that would like to see one) full details of BO printing are
> available on Clayton Jones's web site.
>
> As for the person that could not get decent B/W using Ultachrome
> inks, he should have tried the demo for IP, it's a pig to install,
> but the results are nothing short of spectacular. Once again, I
> prefer BO because of the cost.......
> Take care.


-- 
Ellie Kennard
Innovative Imaging Studio
http://www.iiStudio.com
Contributor to Photoshop Restoration & Retouching (2nd edition) by Katrin
Eismann

Many "commercial" shops are going to the Epson printers and IP.  As for micro-banding, I'ver never seen it on any Epson/IP/Untrachrome print.  I understand that it can happen, but I've never even talked to anyone who has seen it. 
 
IP6 claims better color saturation, and other improvements.  Before I bought IP I talked to the Colorbye folks, and they claimed that every piece of paper that came off my printer with IP would be saleable.  That's a big claim.  But, except for my screw-ups, that has been true.
 
I hear the stories about people having trouble with the installation.  I didn't have any issues.  But, I'm running XP.  I believe, based on personal discussions, that installation on a MAC may be a different story.
 
Tom Baker

Ellie Kennard <Ellie@...> wrote:
Thanks again for the comments.

In reply to the question, I am using Windows XP, so QTR is out for us.

Our history is that we reproduce fine art (giclee prints for those who
like the term) using our Colorspan Esprit 11 colour printer. Of those 11
colours, there are four shades of black. We offered a service to local
photographers of printing their BW prints, and managed to produce some
absolutely beautiful deep rich BW prints. The problem is that there is
micro-banding that plagues us. Sometimes we had to print the same image
many many times before one came out that was acceptable to us. So now we
had a clientelle with no economical way of printing their work. This is a
business for us, and so another investment is clearly what we have to
make.

We might well consider trying the BO option, and at least d/l the trial
version of Imageprint before purchase. If you just prefer BO because of
the cost, we would probably chose to go for IP, as it is vital that we
please our customers...and quickly. It's not a hobby for us.

We are as cautious as this because we have found this microbanding issue
to be a terrible problem and want to avoid buying another system that will
let us down.

Many thanks for all the input,

Ellie


flyfishingusa2002 said:
> Ellie,
> You might like to spend some time and research your requiments in the
> forum archieves, there are many posts describing the pros and cons of
> the various solutions. The other factor to consider is that inks and
> rips are continually changing, much due to the efforts of people that
> regually post to the forum.
> You have not said what OS you are using. If it should be OS X then
> you might care to try QTR it's almost free and exremely effective.
> Start off with the 7600 and try black only approach. It's very simple
> and very, very effectve. If you email me your address I'll send you a
> print for the cost of the postage if you like. (That goes for anyone
> else that would like to see one) full details of BO printing are
> available on Clayton Jones's web site.
>
> As for the person that could not get decent B/W using Ultachrome
> inks, he should have tried the demo for IP, it's a pig to install,
> but the results are nothing short of spectacular. Once again, I
> prefer BO because of the cost.......
> Take care.


-- 
Ellie Kennard
Innovative Imaging Studio
http://www.iiStudio.com
Contributor to Photoshop Restoration & Retouching (2nd edition) by Katrin
Eismann


Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

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If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




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