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Madrid, Spain, and the World

Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Although this list is ostensibly about art and printing,  I find,
especially with some Castilian blood flowing through my veins. that I
cannot blithely ignore the brutality and senselessness of yesterday's
attack in Madrid.  Nine Hundred and eleven days ago, an attack on
civilians cost the lives of well over 3000 in New York City. In the
immediate aftermath of that attack, a singular refrain erupted from the
mouths of leaders and everyday people the world over: "we are New
Yorkers."  The civilized world put aside for a moment, their petty
differences, in recognition of the fact that the death of everyday
innocents, simply trying to make their individual ways through life,  to
promote any political, religious,  or social cause, was not simply
unacceptable but denoted an inherent and fatal flaw in the fabric of any
philosophy that supposedly and ostensibly concerned itself with morality
and the rights of man.

Today, some two and one-half years later, the people of Madrid, and all
Spaniards, know all too well the feelings such unspeakably depraved
callousness towards the value of human life can bring to the hearts of
many.  Catalans, Andalusians,  Castilians, Basques, Aragonians, and all
the people of the Iberian Peninsula mourn with the people of Madrid.
Today, and for the foreseeable future, they all are citizens of Madrid.

 From Malaga to San Sebastian, from Barcelona to Merida a thread of pain
and sorrow binds them all together. Yet, I know that the Spanish people
shall survive, the resolve symbolized in the stone of Gibraltar, the
will and backbone denoted by the steel of Toledo, and the soaring spirit
of the Pyrenees are untouched.  That stone will not crumble, that steel
shall not fail, and that spirit will not be forced down from it's dance
with the Iberian sun.

As an American, and as a "New Yorker," I know only too well the pain
many Spaniards are now feeling.  But, I also know the resolve and will
that such depraved indifference to human life can kindle in the better
angels of our nature.

Terrorism, attacks upon non-combatant civilians, is the killer virus of
our age.  Although other causes may rob the world of greater numbers of
people each year, terrorism of the sort seen yesterday in Spain, when
practiced, infects and poisons the souls of those on all sides.
Whether born of  misguided religion, poverty, or hate, such cruelty and
disregard for one's fellow human beings is nothing less than monstrous
and misanthropic in the extreme. No cause, can ever justify the reckless
disregard for morality that such an attack displays.  No attack can ever
justify the cowardice such an attack confirms.

Some 30 months ago, Spaniards became New Yorkers and poured both support
and sympathy to the people of New York and America.

Yesterday, in a few brief moments, in a train station station filled
with commuters, the world once again found itself reeling from a
blackness of soul and darkness of aim, that is unfathomable to any
feeling being.

Today, for a moment, time and politics once again stand still, as I,
other Americans, and indeed, all right-minded citizens of the world say
"I am with you in this moment of national and international tragedy, for
I too am a citizen of Madrid."

Now, all those of honor and good will must stand together with the
people of Spain, in strength, determination and resolve, but without
succumbing to the desire for revenge engendered by the rage such acts
provokes. For if we do not stand together with Spain, in unity of
purpose, integrity of spirit, and belief in the potential of man for
good; those whom would so cavalierly kill so many have already won.

-- 


Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together
guys"

Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by julianthomas221259

Nice sentiment keith, but wrong.
I'll tell you exactly what people are talking about here. they are 
saying that yet again the price is paid for the economic imperialism 
of leaders like Aznar and Bush and  Blair by immigrants and poor 
people. many of the dead yeasterday didn't have papers and can't be 
ID'd because of the nationalism of Aznar. That was what people I spoke 
to last night as they held their vigils in barcelonan were saying, and 
that is what members of my family were saying, when the arrived home 
safe in madrid.
Before he was elected the Bush regime said they needed a (and i quote) 
'new pearl harbour' in order to provide the excuse to attack  Iraq and 
Afghanistan. They got it and they used it. So the US has a new oilpipe 
in Afghanistan and oil from Iraq. Madrid has a few hundred dead. The 
next target will be the UK.
When next we start getting grandiose about the horrific death here, 
remember, more Iraqi civilians died in one morning than we had 
yesterday. And it went on for months, every morning. But they were 
muslim, so it doesn't really count. Both Bush and Blair were warned 
that this would happen by both their intelligence services, but the 
economic gains were worth it.

Julian

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Neil Carpenter

This certainly isn't the forum for this sort of revisionist tripe.  If you
must equate the horrific killings of your countrymen & mine with the legal
response thereto by the civilized world, please do it elsewhere.

 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: julianthomas221259 [mailto:julian@...] 
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:25 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

 

*	Nice sentiment keith, but wrong.
I'll tell you exactly what people are talking about here. they are 
saying that yet again the price is paid for the economic imperialism 
of leaders like Aznar and Bush and  Blair by immigrants and poor 
people. many of the dead yeasterday didn't have papers and can't be 
ID'd because of the nationalism of Aznar. That was what people I spoke 
to last night as they held their vigils in barcelonan were saying, and 
that is what members of my family were saying, when the arrived home 
safe in madrid.
Before he was elected the Bush regime said they needed a (and i quote) 
'new pearl harbour' in order to provide the excuse to attack  Iraq and 
Afghanistan. They got it and they used it. So the US has a new oilpipe 
in Afghanistan and oil from Iraq. Madrid has a few hundred dead. The 
next target will be the UK.
When next we start getting grandiose about the horrific death here, 
remember, more Iraqi civilians died in one morning than we had 
yesterday. And it went on for months, every morning. But they were 
muslim, so it doesn't really count. Both Bush and Blair were warned 
that this would happen by both their intelligence services, but the 
economic gains were worth it.

Julian

. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Mark Savoia

Moderator, please stop this. This has nothing to do with printing.
Mark

On Mar 12, 2004, at 10:24 AM, julianthomas221259 wrote:

> Nice sentiment keith, but wrong.
>  I'll tell you exactly what people are talking about here. they are
>  saying that yet again the price is paid for the economic imperialism
>  of leaders like Aznar and Bush and� Blair by immigrants and poor
>  people. many of the dead yeasterday didn't have papers and can't be
>  ID'd because of the nationalism of Aznar. That was what people I spoke
>  to last night as they held their vigils in barcelonan were saying, and
>  that is what members of my family were saying, when the arrived home
>  safe in madrid.
>  Before he was elected the Bush regime said they needed a (and i quote)
>  'new pearl harbour' in order to provide the excuse to attack� Iraq and
>  Afghanistan. They got it and they used it. So the US has a new oilpipe
>  in Afghanistan and oil from Iraq. Madrid has a few hundred dead. The
>  next target will be the UK.
>  When next we start getting grandiose about the horrific death here,
>  remember, more Iraqi civilians died in one morning than we had
>  yesterday. And it went on for months, every morning. But they were
>  muslim, so it doesn't really count. Both Bush and Blair were warned
>  that this would happen by both their intelligence services, but the
>  economic gains were worth it.
>
>  Julian
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Jake Hellbach

I have to agree, please post political views to an appropriate list.
Jake

Fine Art Photography 
www.jakehellbachphoto.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Savoia [mailto:mark@...]


Moderator, please stop this. This has nothing to do with printing.
Mark

O

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Jake Hellbach wrote:

>I have to agree, please post political views to an appropriate list.
>Jake
>
>  
>
I don't see how an expression of sympathy for over 120 dead innocents is 
political.. anymore than were the many expressions of sympathy for Jerry 
Olson's passage.

This is not about politics at all.. it is about simple compassion and 
humanity.

I pity those who cannot feel for others so needlessly and senselessly in 
pain.


 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Julian,

The politics are unimportant here.. Whatever any of our opinions on 
politics and policy may be.. This is neither the time nor the place..


 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Jake Hellbach

Its still not appropriate for this list, and I don't need your pity.


Jake


Fine Art Photography
www.jakehellbachphoto.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service [mailto:editor@...]
  Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:09 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World


  Jake Hellbach wrote:

  >I have to agree, please post political views to an appropriate list.
  >Jake
  >
  >  
  >
  I don't see how an expression of sympathy for over 120 dead innocents is 
  political.. anymore than were the many expressions of sympathy for Jerry 
  Olson's passage.

  This is not about politics at all.. it is about simple compassion and 
  humanity.

  I pity those who cannot feel for others so needlessly and senselessly in 
  pain.



  Keith Krebs



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Jake Hellbach wrote:

>Its still not appropriate for this list, and I don't need your pity.
>
>  
>

Funny thing Jake, I didn't note your complaints anywhere on this 
international list objecting to all the comments in the immediate wake 
of 9-11 in NYC..

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/messages/2377>

Care to point out where you complained about that?

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Jim Goshorn

On Mar 12, 2004, at 12:09 PM, Editor P.O.V. Image Service wrote:

> I don't see how an expression of sympathy for over 120 dead innocents 
> is
> political.. anymore than were the many expressions of sympathy for 
> Jerry
> Olson's passage.
>
> This is not about politics at all.. it is about simple compassion and
> humanity.
>
> I pity those who cannot feel for others so needlessly and senselessly 
> in
> pain.

I see no problem in posting a sympathetic statement. The problem begins 
when you get persons who must turn a statement into a political 
condemnation. I felt sadness for all the families who lost loved ones 
and anger for the senseless act.

Jim

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Jake Hellbach

Not funny at all, I wasn't on this list at that time. Did you actually
research that to slam me with?
I'm not going to take up anymore of this lists time with this. I'll just
check back when this list is back to photography.

Really, I didn't mean any personal attack, sorry if it seemed so.

Jake

Fine Art Photography
www.jakehellbachphoto.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service [mailto:editor@...]
  Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:30 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World


  Jake Hellbach wrote:

  >Its still not appropriate for this list, and I don't need your pity.
  >
  >
  >

  Funny thing Jake, I didn't note your complaints anywhere on this
  international list objecting to all the comments in the immediate wake
  of 9-11 in NYC..

  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/messages/2377>

  Care to point out where you complained about that?


  Keith Krebs

  "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer
  User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo
  Publications), at:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
  and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
  "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together
  guys"








  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Jake Hellbach wrote:

> 
>Really, I didn't mean any personal attack, sorry if it seemed so.
>
>  
>
Nor did I, now let's both move on, and hope my original post encourages 
no political diatribes. As I said, this wasn't meant to be either 
personal or about politics...

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Jake Hellbach wrote:

> Not funny at all, I wasn't on this list at that time.
>

Fair point BTW. That's why I asked. insteading of accusing you of  not 
being evenhanded..

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid.. Stop!

2004-03-12 by Jeff Magidson

Don't feel bad Jake... This is what Keith does with his free time. No 
matter how many times he has been asked to keep his posts on the topic 
of B&W print making, he finds a way without regard to get in off topic 
wars with other on the list.


-Jeff
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Friday, March 12, 2004, at 12:37 PM, Jake Hellbach wrote:

>  Not funny at all, I wasn't on this list at that time. Did you actually
> research that to slam me with?
> I'm not going to take up anymore of this lists time with this. I'll 
> just
> check back when this list is back to photography.
>
> Really, I didn't mean any personal attack, sorry if it seemed so.
>
> Jake
>
> Fine Art Photography
> www.jakehellbachphoto.com
>
>

From the Moderator Re: Madrid.

2004-03-12 by Martin Wesley

A terrible tragedy. Expressions of sympathy are not out of place. We all
feel for the horrible loss of the people and families involved and the
incredible shock the people of Spain are experiencing.

However, this really is not the place to discuss the politics of the
situation. It can only lead to strife and injured feelings within our group.
Some of the exchanges are already into "flame" territory. So please take the
politics and commentary off list.

Thank you,
Martin Wesley

Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by px3n120x

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "julianthomas221259" 
<julian@f...> wrote:
> Nice sentiment keith, but wrong.


Sentiments can't be wrong by their nature, eventually misplaced or insincere. I didn't 
hear the same outcry about a week ago when a similar number of innocent people 
were killed in Iraq during a religious procession. Selective humanity?
Sorry for deviating from the topic of this list but like others, I couldn't resist.
Andu

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Richard

-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: julianthomas221259 [mailto:julian@...] 
Sent: 12 March 2004 15:25
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

more Iraqi civilians died in one morning than we had 
yesterday. 

Bit wolly headed there master julian. More Iraqi civilians were kille during
the substantial period when Mr SH ruled OK.

What is more he targeted his foes by social and economic class and as a
result a substantial portion of the countries intellectual and professional
elite perished and they are the people who administer the wheels of the
state machinery.

Now that is what you should be concerning yourself about squire.

Once it becomes clear that Al Quida did the business in Madrid One hopes to
here more from you and one also hopes that that more will be an expression
of solidarity for the democratic countries of the world which I might add
includes Spain or perhaps you would like Franco back would you.
Anyway voting time is a'coming round and we shall see who gets the peoples
nod shall we not. I'll tell you who it won't be matey, it aint gonna be
either Sadam or Osima  or ETTA and that's for sure.

Richard 


---
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RE: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Richard

-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service [mailto:editor@...] 
Sent: 12 March 2004 17:11
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

Julian,

The politics are unimportant here.. Whatever any of our opinions on 
politics and policy may be.. This is neither the time nor the place..

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Well now, you started the whole thing squire.

Richard


---
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RE: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-12 by Richard

-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Jim Goshorn [mailto:jgoshorn@...] 
Sent: 12 March 2004 17:37
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World


I see no problem in posting a sympathetic statement. The problem begins 
when you get persons who must turn a statement into a political 
condemnation. 

Oh really? You see no politics in all this, is that what you are saying.

Richard


---
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Moderator..please take back control of the room

2004-03-12 by coovert1900

enough..please..it's one thing to get off subject and talk about 
scanners but please take it to another room..this has always been the 
one place to escape from the constant roar of politics...

SHUT UP!

2004-03-12 by Megan Milligan

I don't post often on this list, but could we all please get back to the topic of it in the first place?  I hear enough about Iraq, Spain, & the like on the news.  I don't need to see it dredged up again here.

Megan



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] SHUT UP!

2004-03-12 by Phil Radlick

Ditto, Megan

Phil Radlick
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Megan Milligan [mailto:yasminduran@...] 
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:06 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] SHUT UP!


I don't post often on this list, but could we all please get back to the
topic of it in the first place?  I hear enough about Iraq, Spain, & the
like on the news.  I don't need to see it dredged up again here.

Megan



---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources
as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid.. Stop!

2004-03-12 by Robert W. Shearer

Keith breathes some life into the list. One track minds have a problem with that but creative thinkers do not.
Bob
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Magidson 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 12:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid.. Stop!



  Don't feel bad Jake... This is what Keith does with his free time. No 
  matter how many times he has been asked to keep his posts on the topic 
  of B&W print making, he finds a way without regard to get in off topic 
  wars with other on the list.


  -Jeff


  On Friday, March 12, 2004, at 12:37 PM, Jake Hellbach wrote:

  >  Not funny at all, I wasn't on this list at that time. Did you actually
  > research that to slam me with?
  > I'm not going to take up anymore of this lists time with this. I'll 
  > just
  > check back when this list is back to photography.
  >
  > Really, I didn't mean any personal attack, sorry if it seemed so.
  >
  > Jake
  >
  > Fine Art Photography
  > www.jakehellbachphoto.com
  >
  >



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Madrid.. Stop!

2004-03-13 by px3n120x

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert W. Shearer" 
<rwshearer@c...> wrote:
> Keith breathes some life into the list. One track minds have a problem with that but 
creative thinkers do not.
> Bob

I agree, Keith is not ashamed to have a life and prove it, I appreciate that despite my  
disagreements with his views.

Andu

Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-13 by Andre

--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "julianthomas221259" 
<julian@f...> wrote:
> Nice sentiment keith, but wrong.
> I'll tell you exactly what people are talking about here. they are 
> saying that yet again the price is paid for the economic 
imperialism 
> of leaders like Aznar and Bush and  Blair by immigrants and poor 
> people....>
> Julian

As I write this i'm seeing, on the tele, people marching in the 
streets of Madrid. It's raining and its cold. There's something like 
2.3 million people condemning this barbarian terrorist act.

Seems that tonight the Spanish goverment wants to pursue the ETA 
(basque separatist) trail instead of Al-Quaida. With spanish 
elections this coming sunday, people would be furuous against Aznar 
and the US if it turned out to have been an Al-Quaida terrorist act!

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-13 by Olaf Ringdahl

Madrid is not only off topic. It is inflammatory politics and guaranteed to
produce flames. I am not the moderator but I ask the passionate partisans to
become silent on this issue and let us all return to the friendly exchange
of experiences, ideas, tips and information pertaining to the various ways
of producing black and white prints from digital files. This group has been
wonderfully helpful and friendly. Please allow us to carry on in that
spirit.

Olaf Ringdahl

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Madrid, Spain, and the World

2004-03-13 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Andre wrote:

>--- In 
>DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "julianthomas221259" 
><julian@f...> wrote:
>  
>
>>Nice sentiment keith, but wrong.
>>I'll tell you exactly what people are talking about here. they are 
>>saying that yet again the price is paid for the economic 
>>    
>>
>imperialism 
>  
>
>>of leaders like Aznar and Bush and  Blair by immigrants and poor 
>>people....>
>>Julian
>>    
>>
>
>As I write this i'm seeing, on the tele, people marching in the 
>streets of Madrid. It's raining and its cold. There's something like 
>2.3 million people condemning this barbarian terrorist act.
>
>Seems that tonight the Spanish goverment wants to pursue the ETA 
>(basque separatist) trail instead of Al-Quaida. With spanish 
>elections this coming sunday, people would be furuous against Aznar 
>and the US if it turned out to have been an Al-Quaida terrorist act!
>  
>
Andre and Julian, I won't discuss my political view on this here or 
now.  Suffice it to say on these issues my views are MUCH more typically 
European than typically American.

In any event, I would be marching in Spain tonight if I could and on 
March 20 I shall be marching for peace and against the war in Iraq. So, 
please don't read more into my post about Madrid than what I actually 
put there..

Out of respect for the 200 dead and 1500 wounded, now is not a time for 
politics.  Let Spain bury her sons and daughters first. There will be 
time for the living to act once the funerals are over.

However, I'll say again, please lets keep the political side of this 
off-list.  The dead and wounded don't deserve us bickering above their 
bodies as their countrymen march and weep in the rain.

In any event, I'm not going to discuss this further here.  My original 
post was made out of respect for the dead and wounded, and out of  
sympathy and compassion for those touched by this tragedy.  Nothing 
more, nothing less..  Further comment by me would sully the blood spilt 
on those streets with the muck of politics.. Those who fell there 
deserve better than that.

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Enough Already...Shut up!

2004-03-13 by coovert1900

what's it gonna take for these people to shut up? This room is really 
starting to piss me off...it's nice to have an escape from the day to 
day problems of the world and create beautiful prints. see ya'll in a 
week or so..maybe by then things wil be back to normal

FROM THE MODERATOR RE: Politics

2004-03-13 by Martin Wesley

Okay folks. I asked once nicely.

To those individuals participating, please do not be surprised if your
ability to post messages to this forum disappears if you insist on
continuing.

Martin Wesley
Group Owner

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