Digital BW, The Print

Hi all

I am having a problem printing an image with my 2100 and QTR (supplied curves 50-50 
cool/warm, 1440x720dpi on EEM).  The printer's dithering seems screwed up and is 
leaving a horrible streaking effect in an area of the print which should be plain black.  The 
effect does not appear on-screen in CS.  I have scanned the problem and posted it here 
(left image).

http://homepage.mac.com/stevekale/PhotoAlbum14.html

Notice the right side of the first print.  The area of odd dithering slowly narrows from both 
sides and is eventually no longer an issue as it gets further into the print.  But it leaves 
behind a horizontally area of fine streaks.  I have swapped out the MK cartridge and again 
and again but the damaged portion is consistent.  The portion of the image in question 
has not been edited (other than levels and some mild sharpening along with the rest of the 
print).

As a further test I rotated the image 180 degrees and printed it again.  The effect kicks in 
across the whole of the black space, slowly narrowing from each side.  The second image 
on the web page depicts this.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks 

Steve

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" <stevekale@b...> 
wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> I am having a problem printing an image with my 2100 and QTR (supplied curves 50-50 
> cool/warm, 1440x720dpi on EEM).  The printer's dithering seems screwed up and is 
> leaving a horrible streaking effect in an area of the print which should be plain black.  
The 
> effect does not appear on-screen in CS.  I have scanned the problem and posted it here 
> (left image).
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/stevekale/PhotoAlbum14.html
> 
> Notice the right side of the first print.  The area of odd dithering slowly narrows from 
both 
> sides and is eventually no longer an issue as it gets further into the print.  But it leaves 
> behind a horizontally area of fine streaks.  I have swapped out the MK cartridge and 
again 
> and again but the damaged portion is consistent.  The portion of the image in question 
> has not been edited (other than levels and some mild sharpening along with the rest of 
the 
> print).
> 
> As a further test I rotated the image 180 degrees and printed it again.  The effect kicks 
in 
> across the whole of the black space, slowly narrowing from each side.  The second 
image 
> on the web page depicts this.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> Steve

Hi Steve,

What it looks like to  me is the microweave pattern.   It this at the end of the
image area?  I think the problem is that the printer didn't finish printing the
end of the image.   It takes a little while to process the white margin at the
end of a page and the final print data very often doesn't get sent to the printer
until after the margin is processed.   So I'm guessing that maybe you 
manually ejected the print prematurely.

Roy

Hi Roy

Sorry I should have said that the scans were taken from images where I
intentionally ejected the print early so that you can see how the ink is
being laid down differently in the affected areas vs the other parts of the
print.  Once the head has fully passed over then the difference is not so
obvious - just the fine horizontal scratch-like effect.  The issue is more
obvious when watching the printer lay down the ink.  To the left and right
of the affected area there are random dots.  In the middle it is much more
like streaks of ink.  In each case this is the leading edge of the print ­
the first inch roughly.

Thanks

Steve



Hi Steve,

What it looks like to  me is the microweave pattern.   It this at the end of
the
image area?  I think the problem is that the printer didn't finish printing
the
end of the image.   It takes a little while to process the white margin at
the
end of a page and the final print data very often doesn't get sent to the
printer
until after the margin is processed.   So I'm guessing that maybe you
manually ejected the print prematurely.

Roy




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Steve,

I'm not sure what more I can add, but the weird patterns you see are
the way the microweave works.  It is strange and the exact gray value
being printed does affect it showing during the lay down.  Part of the
reason using QTR shows this more than the Epson driver is that fewer
number of inks are being used.  In the cases I've seen when all the
passes are finished the effect is completely covered up.  But it sounds
like you are left with some kind of scratch-like banding.

Have you always had the problem?  Changed inks recently?  Is it
mage dependent?  Slightly tonal changes or just adding a small amount
of noise may help.

Roy



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@=
b...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Roy
> 
> Sorry I should have said that the scans were taken from images where I
> intentionally ejected the print early so that you can see how the ink is
> being laid down differently in the affected areas vs the other parts of t=
he
> print.  Once the head has fully passed over then the difference is not so=

> obvious - just the fine horizontal scratch-like effect.  The issue is mor=
e
> obvious when watching the printer lay down the ink.  To the left and righ=
t
> of the affected area there are random dots.  In the middle it is much mor=
e
> like streaks of ink.  In each case this is the leading edge of the print =
­
> the first inch roughly.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> What it looks like to  me is the microweave pattern.   It this at the end=
 of
> the
> image area?  I think the problem is that the printer didn't finish printi=
ng
> the
> end of the image.   It takes a little while to process the white margin a=
t
> the
> end of a page and the final print data very often doesn't get sent to the=

> printer
> until after the margin is processed.   So I'm guessing that maybe you
> manually ejected the print prematurely.
> 
> Roy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources a=
s
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this sam=
e
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to kee=
p
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from=

> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner =
and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:=

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE 
TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF 
THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILIT=
Y
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO=
 
OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT 
OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
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Roy,

I've noticed this pattern on my 1160 when printing out the ink limit test step wedges 
in calibration mode. The pattern does not show up in normal printing for me, even of 
a step wedge.

I'm using the older version of the software if that makes a difference. Hope this helps.

-bruce


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> 
wrote:

> Hi Steve,
> 
> I'm not sure what more I can add, but the weird patterns you see are
> the way the microweave works.  It is strange and the exact gray value
> being printed does affect it showing during the lay down.  Part of the
> reason using QTR shows this more than the Epson driver is that fewer
> number of inks are being used.  In the cases I've seen when all the
> passes are finished the effect is completely covered up.  But it sounds
> like you are left with some kind of scratch-like banding.
> 
> Have you always had the problem?  Changed inks recently?  Is it
> mage dependent?  Slightly tonal changes or just adding a small amount
> of noise may help.
> 
> Roy
>

Roy

This is the first time I have noticed this on an image but then this is also
the first I have printed with substantial areas of deep black ­ all the
background should be dMax and consistently so.  It is interesting to note
that when the printer gets to a portion of the image that is not 100% black
the problem quickly disappears ­ by this I mean that if the pure black is
broken by a portion of the image that is not pure black and then followed
(in order of printing) by another area of pure black, the second area prints
ok.  I printed the image with the Epson driver and BO and had no problems.
QTR prints the image from right to left while the Epson driver goes from
left to right.  So QTR struggles with the lower right background area or,
when the image is rotated before printing, the mid left side (in terms of
the original perspective).  With the rotated image, QTR has no problem with
the background once it has printed through the orchid itself.  I have added
the original image to the web page so that you can get a sense of the entire
image.  Unfortunately my scanner doesn¹t scan the end effect that well to
show you but it looks as thought the print was brushed/scratched while the
ink was still wet ­ in the affected areas.

Thanks for the help

Steve

From: "Roy Harrington" <roy@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:31:12 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 2100 problem/QTR

Hi Steve,

I'm not sure what more I can add, but the weird patterns you see are
the way the microweave works.  It is strange and the exact gray value
being printed does affect it showing during the lay down.  Part of the
reason using QTR shows this more than the Epson driver is that fewer
number of inks are being used.  In the cases I've seen when all the
passes are finished the effect is completely covered up.  But it sounds
like you are left with some kind of scratch-like banding.

Have you always had the problem?  Changed inks recently?  Is it
mage dependent?  Slightly tonal changes or just adding a small amount
of noise may help.

Roy





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It doesn't seem to be print dependent.  I am now printing the second in the
same series and can see the same effect in the leading edge of the black
background (although it is less obvious in the final HPR print than EEM).  I
also took a closer look at the BO prints I made yesterday.  I am not happy
with these either because I can see consistent very fine banding across the
print (horizontal from the perspective of the printhead path - vertical in
terms of the landscape image - is this "horizontal banding"?).  I do not see
this in the QTR prints.  So I seem to be caught betwixt and between!

Regards

Steve

From: "Roy Harrington" <roy@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:31:12 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 2100 problem/QTR

Hi Steve,

I'm not sure what more I can add, but the weird patterns you see are
the way the microweave works.  It is strange and the exact gray value
being printed does affect it showing during the lay down.  Part of the
reason using QTR shows this more than the Epson driver is that fewer
number of inks are being used.  In the cases I've seen when all the
passes are finished the effect is completely covered up.  But it sounds
like you are left with some kind of scratch-like banding.

Have you always had the problem?  Changed inks recently?  Is it
image dependent?  Slightly tonal changes or just adding a small amount
of noise may help.

Roy





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Selecting the black background and adding 3% noise seems to have fixed the
QTR prints ­ both in the way the ink is laid down and the final print.  I am
not sure why I have micro banding in the BO prints that does not exist in
the QTR prints but that is less of an issue for now.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]