Digital BW, The Print

I just wanted to relay the success I have had with the black only 
printing technique.  I have always wanted to do Black and White from 
an inkjet printer.  I have never been happy with the results.  I was 
very skeptical when I heard about the BO print technique as descibed 
by Clayton Jones.  However, even if it did not work the initial ink 
cost of eboni ink was cheap compared to piezo.

I spared no expense in getting up and running with the right 
equipment.  Nikon coolscan V, epson 2200 printer.

I currently use a Leica M7 with 50mm 1.4 Lux and the 90mm Cron, and I 
started to develop my own film again.  I mainly use ilford fp4+ in 
xtol 1:3.  I tried 400 speed film but I mainly shoot pictures of my 
kids or landscape, and I did not want the extra grain.  I do all my 
own scanning with Vuescan software based on this article about 
scaning Black and White negatives:

http://www.shutterbug.net/features/0902sb_bw/index.html

I follow it exactly as recommended.  Post scan process takes about 20-
30 minutes to get a master proof (that includes levels, curves, 
dodging and burning).

I wish you could see the end results.  They are nothing short of 
breath taking.  I am making prints that I likely would never achieve 
in the Darkroom.  One particular print I just made of a Landscape has 
so much Luminace/definition/Actuance that everytime I pass by it I 
stop to admire it. The print draws me into it.  It reminds me of the 
reason I bought my Leica, and of the Black and White photography I 
have always strived for but could never quite reach.  I am far from 
an expert photographer.

I am posting this as a guide for others starting in BO printing for 
my workflow which I have found works extremely well for me.  It is 
entirely based on Clayton Jones BO printing articles.

I could post the picture on the net but it just lacks the true 
luminance that the Print reveals.

Btw, the new print of my little girl cannot even stand next to the 
other children's prints ( It is that good).  The other prints are 
dull comparisons, and some of them where professionally printed.  My 
wife has instructed my to remake the old prints with my new scanner 
and this new technique so they will be able to stand on the wall next 
to the new prints.

Thanks
Steve

Enjoyable post.
Would you mind saying what other methods or materials you have used that 
did not do as well as this?
Do you have a guess as to what part of the system is mostly responsible for 
your success?   Or is it all the little things put together?

-Don M

spersky123 wrote:

>I just wanted to relay the success I have had with the black only
>printing technique.  I have always wanted to do Black and White from
>an inkjet printer.  I have never been happy with the results.  I was
>very skeptical when I heard about the BO print technique as descibed
>by Clayton Jones.  However, even if it did not work the initial ink
>cost of eboni ink was cheap compared to piezo.
>
>I spared no expense in getting up and running with the right
>equipment.  Nikon coolscan V, epson 2200 printer.
>
>I currently use a Leica M7 with 50mm 1.4 Lux and the 90mm Cron, and I
>started to develop my own film again.  I mainly use ilford fp4+ in
>xtol 1:3.  I tried 400 speed film but I mainly shoot pictures of my
>kids or landscape, and I did not want the extra grain.  I do all my
>own scanning with Vuescan software based on this article about
>scaning Black and White negatives:
>
>http://www.shutterbug.net/features/0902sb_bw/index.html
>
>I follow it exactly as recommended.  Post scan process takes about 20-
>30 minutes to get a master proof (that includes levels, curves,
>dodging and burning).
>
>I wish you could see the end results.  They are nothing short of
>breath taking.  I am making prints that I likely would never achieve
>in the Darkroom.  One particular print I just made of a Landscape has
>so much Luminace/definition/Actuance that everytime I pass by it I
>stop to admire it. The print draws me into it.  It reminds me of the
>reason I bought my Leica, and of the Black and White photography I
>have always strived for but could never quite reach.  I am far from
>an expert photographer.
>
>I am posting this as a guide for others starting in BO printing for
>my workflow which I have found works extremely well for me.  It is
>entirely based on Clayton Jones BO printing articles.
>
>I could post the picture on the net but it just lacks the true
>luminance that the Print reveals.
>
>Btw, the new print of my little girl cannot even stand next to the
>other children's prints ( It is that good).  The other prints are
>dull comparisons, and some of them where professionally printed.  My
>wife has instructed my to remake the old prints with my new scanner
>and this new technique so they will be able to stand on the wall next
>to the new prints.
>
>Thanks
>Steve
>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
>they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
>them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
>Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
>membership without notice.
>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
>printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
>the membership.
>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
>guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner 
>and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
>"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO 
>YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
>EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
>PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
>THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE 
>BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE 
>USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) 
>UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
>STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
>YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
>PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Don M <don@m...> 
wrote:
> Enjoyable post.
> Would you mind saying what other methods or materials you have used 
that 
> did not do as well as this?

I have used Digital Capture with D100 and conversions to greyscale 
in  photoshop with silver oxide filters.  That was not nessecarily a 
bad thing just not the post processing I wanted to do.  I wanted to 
do true Black and White, and I could tell the difference in my work.

Canon i9000 printer with regular Canon ink black only.  That IMHO 
made good Black and White.  Nothing to really hang on the wall and be 
proud of, and there was not enough tonal gradation, and the photo 
looked store processed.  It was not like a custom print.

Old HP printer with full color inks.  Just horrible.

Current Epson 2200 with photo black ink.  Horrible too much bronzing.


 
> Do you have a guess as to what part of the system is mostly 
responsible for 
> your success?   Or is it all the little things put together?
> 
> -Don M


I am now making the best possible negative for 35mm with fp4+ I have 
ever produced.  The Leica M system is truly a large leap in quality 
from my Nikon System (Nikon lover dont flame me).  Combine that with 
a great film like fp4+, and that helps a lot.  That is subjective, 
but the picture have a quality that just jumps off the page with 
minimal grain and great contrast and resolution even at 13x19 
prints.  I think that may be a key part of the quality difference.

The Epson 2200 is the best printer I have ever had and the 2880 DPI 
print resolution plays a huge part in the fact that the image is less 
pixelated then my previous print jobs on my old printers.  I think 
this may be important with Black only printing.

Despite all of the above,  the ink recommendation made the 
difference.  None of my black only prints, or black and white prints 
with full color inks have come close to what simple eboni black ink 
can do, and it is so cheap.

So I would say it is the combo of everything.  The great negatives 
help, the printer seems to work great but my other comparisons where 
not in the same class as the Epson 2200, and of course the ink is key.

As for the way I process the Negatives, I am not sure how much that 
matters especially with the way I scan the negatives. Even dense 
negative have all the information you need from the raw CCD output.

If you are interested in an 8x10 print of what I have been able to 
accomplish with this technique send me an e-mail and I will mail you 
the landscape picture I am talking about.  I can mail out a few 
pictures at least just to share my experience (I hope I dont get 
flooded with requests).

Thanks
Steve

Steve would you care to share what paper you are using?  Thanks

Joe




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "spersky123" 
<spersky@s...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Don M 
<don@m...> 
> wrote:
> > Enjoyable post.
> > Would you mind saying what other methods or materials you have 
used 
> that 
> > did not do as well as this?
> 
> I have used Digital Capture with D100 and conversions to greyscale 
> in  photoshop with silver oxide filters.  That was not nessecarily 
a 
> bad thing just not the post processing I wanted to do.  I wanted 
to 
> do true Black and White, and I could tell the difference in my 
work.
> 
> Canon i9000 printer with regular Canon ink black only.  That IMHO 
> made good Black and White.  Nothing to really hang on the wall and 
be 
> proud of, and there was not enough tonal gradation, and the photo 
> looked store processed.  It was not like a custom print.
> 
> Old HP printer with full color inks.  Just horrible.
> 
> Current Epson 2200 with photo black ink.  Horrible too much 
bronzing.
> 
> 
>  
> > Do you have a guess as to what part of the system is mostly 
> responsible for 
> > your success?   Or is it all the little things put together?
> > 
> > -Don M
> 
> 
> I am now making the best possible negative for 35mm with fp4+ I 
have 
> ever produced.  The Leica M system is truly a large leap in 
quality 
> from my Nikon System (Nikon lover dont flame me).  Combine that 
with 
> a great film like fp4+, and that helps a lot.  That is subjective, 
> but the picture have a quality that just jumps off the page with 
> minimal grain and great contrast and resolution even at 13x19 
> prints.  I think that may be a key part of the quality difference.
> 
> The Epson 2200 is the best printer I have ever had and the 2880 
DPI 
> print resolution plays a huge part in the fact that the image is 
less 
> pixelated then my previous print jobs on my old printers.  I think 
> this may be important with Black only printing.
> 
> Despite all of the above,  the ink recommendation made the 
> difference.  None of my black only prints, or black and white 
prints 
> with full color inks have come close to what simple eboni black 
ink 
> can do, and it is so cheap.
> 
> So I would say it is the combo of everything.  The great negatives 
> help, the printer seems to work great but my other comparisons 
where 
> not in the same class as the Epson 2200, and of course the ink is 
key.
> 
> As for the way I process the Negatives, I am not sure how much 
that 
> matters especially with the way I scan the negatives. Even dense 
> negative have all the information you need from the raw CCD output.
> 
> If you are interested in an 8x10 print of what I have been able to 
> accomplish with this technique send me an e-mail and I will mail 
you 

> the landscape picture I am talking about.  I can mail out a few 
> pictures at least just to share my experience (I hope I dont get 
> flooded with requests).
> 
> Thanks
> Steve

Two questions for spersky:

1.  So I could use Eboni in my 2200 for BO,
and then swap it out for Epson Matte or Photo
Black when I do color printing?

2.  What paper do you recommend?

Thanks,
Alan

Currently, I am using EEM  paper. I do have some photo rag on the way 
though.

Good luck

I wouldn't recommend swapping the Eboni cart for the Epson blacks until  
you finish the Eboni because the MIS Eboni carts do not self seal as do  
the Epson carts.  You can do it, but you will have to tape the exit  
hole - will be quite messy.

On Wednesday, April 7, 2004, at 07:05  PM, Alan wrote:

> Two questions for spersky:
>
> 1.  So I could use Eboni in my 2200 for BO,
> and then swap it out for Epson Matte or Photo
> Black when I do color printing?
>
> 2.  What paper do you recommend?
>
> Thanks,
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  
> ---------------------~-->
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> Printer at MyInks.com.  Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &  
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to  
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from  
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and  
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group  
> Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the  
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER”  
> AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE  
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE  
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT  
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES),  
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,  
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF  
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD  
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER  
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Thank you Steve.

Joe



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "spersky123" 
<spersky@s...> wrote:
> Currently, I am using EEM  paper. I do have some photo rag on the 
way 

> though.
> 
> Good luck

The only paper I have tried is epson EEM.  However Clayton Jones 
mentioned a few successful papers that he has used in the past.  I 
currently have them on order.  I look forward to trying them.  I have 
not tried switching inks yet.  I am looking forward to trying the new 
papers.  I ordered:

H photo rag 308
Hawk mountain merlin
Hawk Mountain condor b/w
Epson fine art velvet

these are the papers Clayton is using.  I am basing most of my 
succces on following his recommendation.

Good luck,
Steve

I'm still new to B&W digital photogrpahy but I am really interested 
in trying Eboni BO technique. My question is: for Eboni BO priting, 
do I need to buy just the black cartridge or the whole MIS Eboni 
cart? If the former, is it okay to swap the black ink depending 
whether I want to print color or b&w. Carl mentioned that MIS 
cartridges are not sealed so how about keeping MIS cartridge in the 
printer all the time and swap it only when making color prints?
Thanx,
Yaneck


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield 
<scho@m...> wrote:
> I wouldn't recommend swapping the Eboni cart for the Epson blacks 
until  
> you finish the Eboni because the MIS Eboni carts do not self seal 
as do  
> the Epson carts.  You can do it, but you will have to tape the 
exit  
> hole - will be quite messy.
> 
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2004, at 07:05  PM, Alan wrote:
> 
> > Two questions for spersky:
> >
> > 1.  So I could use Eboni in my 2200 for BO,
> > and then swap it out for Epson Matte or Photo
> > Black when I do color printing?
> >
> > 2.  What paper do you recommend?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Alan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  
> > ---------------------~-->
> > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or 
Lexmark
> > Printer at MyInks.com.  Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US 
&  
> > Canada.
> > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/ucIolB/TM
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--- 
> > ~->
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish  
> > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting  
> > this same page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to  
> > keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
from  
> > the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital  
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> > removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and  
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group  
> > Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in 
the  
> > Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
THE "OWNER"  
> > AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT 
BE  
> > LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED 
TO,  
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER 
INTANGIBLE  
> > LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT  
> > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
DAMAGES),  
> > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL 
BW,  
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION 
OF  
> > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
THIRD  
> > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER  

> > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >