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Digital BW, The Print

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Ice4

Ice4

2004-04-11 by Robert W. Shearer

The marketing that I have seen is claiming that ICE4 will work on Kodachrome slides. That is the real reason I have been taking a look at that software. Is there anything out there that works in the same manner as Ice 
on Kodachrome?
The CoolScan V is mentioned. What of the 9000? What is gained for all that extra money with the exception of ability to scan medium format. It would appear that the ICE software would make for a nice workflow. I agree, film cameras seem to really jump ahead on medium format. Of course, money (or lack thereof is always part of the equation.)
Bob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Ice4

2004-04-11 by Joe Dempsey

I have no experience with DI4. but plenty of experience with DI3. I have a
Microtek Flatbed Scanmaker 9800 with DI for prints and it works great. I
also have a Nikon Super Coolscan 4000 ED with DI3. I have scanned
transparencies and color and BW negative 35 mm film with excellent results.
I can't image how the scanner would know what is being scanned. It simply
looks for negative or positive film. The Nikon also has ROC (restore old
color) that works great as well.
Hope this helps.
Joe
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Robert W. Shearer [mailto:rwshearer@...]
  Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 2:20 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Ice4


  The marketing that I have seen is claiming that ICE4 will work on
Kodachrome slides. That is the real reason I have been taking a look at that
software. Is there anything out there that works in the same manner as Ice
  on Kodachrome?
  The CoolScan V is mentioned. What of the 9000? What is gained for all that
extra money with the exception of ability to scan medium format. It would
appear that the ICE software would make for a nice workflow. I agree, film
cameras seem to really jump ahead on medium format. Of course, money (or
lack thereof is always part of the equation.)
  Bob

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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the membership.
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  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Ice4

2004-04-11 by Paul D. DeRocco

> From: Robert W. Shearer [mailto:rwshearer@...]
>
> The marketing that I have seen is claiming that ICE4 will work on
> Kodachrome slides. That is the real reason I have been taking a
> look at that software.

Perhaps they've found a wavelength that penetrates Kodachrome better. If
that's true, then it's good news. dICE is a very useful technology when it
works.

> The CoolScan V is mentioned. What of the 9000? What is gained for
> all that extra money with the exception of ability to scan medium
> format. It would appear that the ICE software would make for a
> nice workflow. I agree, film cameras seem to really jump ahead on
> medium format. Of course, money (or lack thereof is always part
> of the equation.)

I would think (although I'm only guessing) that the 9000 would have greater
depth of field, just because everything is physically larger. The 35mm Nikon
scanners are notorious for shallow DOF, which makes it impossible to get
good sharp scans of warped slides.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

RE: [Digital BW] Ice4

2004-04-11 by Paul D. DeRocco

> From: Joe Dempsey [mailto:jdempsey@...]
>
> I can't image how the scanner would know what is being scanned. It simply
> looks for negative or positive film. The Nikon also has ROC (restore old
> color) that works great as well.

As I understand it, the ICE functionality requires that the film be
essentially transparent at the IR wavelengths used, so that scratches and
dust can be "seen" in both light and dark parts of the image. However,
Kodachrome and B&W neg film both have residual silver in them after
processing, which absorbes some IR wavelengths.

I'm just parroting what I've read, from what I believe are informed sources.
I'm certainly no chemist.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

RE: [Digital BW] Ice4

2004-04-11 by Tom Baker

ICE4 claims to have solved that problem.  I haven't seen anything that disputes the claimed results from ICE4.
 
Tom Baker

"Paul D. DeRocco" <pderocco@...> wrote:
> From: Joe Dempsey [mailto:jdempsey@...]
>
> I can't image how the scanner would know what is being scanned. It simply
> looks for negative or positive film. The Nikon also has ROC (restore old
> color) that works great as well.

As I understand it, the ICE functionality requires that the film be
essentially transparent at the IR wavelengths used, so that scratches and
dust can be "seen" in both light and dark parts of the image. However,
Kodachrome and B&W neg film both have residual silver in them after
processing, which absorbes some IR wavelengths.

I'm just parroting what I've read, from what I believe are informed sources.
I'm certainly no chemist.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Ice4

2004-04-11 by Richard Sintchak

Sunday, April 11, 2004, 12:20:05 PM, you wrote:

RWS> The marketing that I have seen is claiming that ICE4 will
RWS> work on Kodachrome slides. That is the real reason I have been
RWS> taking a look at that software. Is there anything out there that
RWS> works in the same manner as Ice 
RWS> on Kodachrome?
RWS> The CoolScan V is mentioned. What of the 9000? What is
RWS> gained for all that extra money with the exception of ability to
RWS> scan medium format. It would appear that the ICE software would
RWS> make for a nice workflow. I agree, film cameras seem to really
RWS> jump ahead on medium format. Of course, money (or lack thereof is
RWS> always part of the equation.)
RWS> Bob

Contrary to what is said about this I have had no problem scanning
Kodachrome slides from the 50's, early 60's and early 80's on my
LS-4000 using both ICE 3 and Vuescan with it's dust removal
capabilities.  I hear that some Kodachrome emulsions can have problems
with infra-red dust-cleaning utilities, and theory as to why makes
sense to me, but apparently not all Kodachrome emulsions are effected
by it the same way.

BTW, I find that NikonScan is awful for color management and for it's
clipping of highlights. And that's why I use Vuescan as I get *much*
better results with everything (slides, color negs, B&W negs) than I
do with NikonScan. To use ICE, be it version 3 or 4, you must use
NikonScan.  ICE4 may be better somehow but I downloaded and used it
with my LS-4000 and the color management is no better.  Maybe it's
better with the LS-V or 5000....

-- 
Best regards,
 Richard                            mailto:richard@...

Re: [Digital BW] Ice4

2004-04-12 by Robert W. Shearer

Thanks Paul,
I am starting to get some concept here.
Kodak's website,(they now own digital ice) has no caveats. I believe that they are leaving out any negative info.
Bob
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul D. DeRocco 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 4:16 PM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Ice4


  > From: Joe Dempsey [mailto:jdempsey@...]
  >
  > I can't image how the scanner would know what is being scanned. It simply
  > looks for negative or positive film. The Nikon also has ROC (restore old
  > color) that works great as well.

  As I understand it, the ICE functionality requires that the film be
  essentially transparent at the IR wavelengths used, so that scratches and
  dust can be "seen" in both light and dark parts of the image. However,
  Kodachrome and B&W neg film both have residual silver in them after
  processing, which absorbes some IR wavelengths.

  I'm just parroting what I've read, from what I believe are informed sources.
  I'm certainly no chemist.

  --

  Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
  Paul                mailto:pderocco@...



  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Ice4

2004-04-12 by Robert W. Shearer

Richard,
I take it that ICE4 won't work as a plug in to photo shop. I went to the web site and downloaded ROC, SHO and GEM. They don't offer ICE4 as a plug in which is regrettable. Kodak says that it needs to be tuned to the hardware.
Bob
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard Sintchak 
  To: Robert W. Shearer 
  Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 6:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ice4



  Sunday, April 11, 2004, 12:20:05 PM, you wrote:

  RWS> The marketing that I have seen is claiming that ICE4 will
  RWS> work on Kodachrome slides. That is the real reason I have been
  RWS> taking a look at that software. Is there anything out there that
  RWS> works in the same manner as Ice 
  RWS> on Kodachrome?
  RWS> The CoolScan V is mentioned. What of the 9000? What is
  RWS> gained for all that extra money with the exception of ability to
  RWS> scan medium format. It would appear that the ICE software would
  RWS> make for a nice workflow. I agree, film cameras seem to really
  RWS> jump ahead on medium format. Of course, money (or lack thereof is
  RWS> always part of the equation.)
  RWS> Bob

  Contrary to what is said about this I have had no problem scanning
  Kodachrome slides from the 50's, early 60's and early 80's on my
  LS-4000 using both ICE 3 and Vuescan with it's dust removal
  capabilities.  I hear that some Kodachrome emulsions can have problems
  with infra-red dust-cleaning utilities, and theory as to why makes
  sense to me, but apparently not all Kodachrome emulsions are effected
  by it the same way.

  BTW, I find that NikonScan is awful for color management and for it's
  clipping of highlights. And that's why I use Vuescan as I get *much*
  better results with everything (slides, color negs, B&W negs) than I
  do with NikonScan. To use ICE, be it version 3 or 4, you must use
  NikonScan.  ICE4 may be better somehow but I downloaded and used it
  with my LS-4000 and the color management is no better.  Maybe it's
  better with the LS-V or 5000....

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Richard                            mailto:richard@...



  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




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